When did dogs become our best friends? • Hacker News Board

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#201

Post by cdchn » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:33 PM UTC

imzadi wrote: post #127

magicalhippo wrote: post #89

Reminded me of the experiment to domesticate silver foxes[1]. Apparently they got quite tame foxes in just 30 generations. Interestingly, while they were selected purely for lack of aggression towards humans they started to develop dog-like physical traits. Hasn't been replicated yet, and doubtfully will, but interesting. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

It's interesting, though, because anyone who has ever owned a cat knows that they are only barely domesticated. It might be something in the canine brain that makes it easy to domesticate them.

I remember reading once that cats pretend domesticated themselves. Rather then changing themselves to be more docile and acceptable to humans they adapted traits that just make them seem more appealing to humans.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#202

Post by Dalewyn » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:36 PM UTC

sdwr wrote: post #93

magicalhippo wrote: post #89

Reminded me of the experiment to domesticate silver foxes[1]. Apparently they got quite tame foxes in just 30 generations. Interestingly, while they were selected purely for lack of aggression towards humans they started to develop dog-like physical traits. Hasn't been replicated yet, and doubtfully will, but interesting. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

Really fascinating, I love the implication that domestication is tied to juvenile characteristics (getting along in a group means acting more like a kid than an adult protecting your territory / breeding rights). > "Are we domesticated in the sense of dogs? No. But I am comfortable saying that the first thing that has to happen to get a human from an apelike ancestor is a substantial increase in tolerance toward one…

I recall reading many years ago how humans are fundamentally juvenile even when we reach adulthood, given our propensity to socialize and more importantly play.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#203

Post by llamaimperative » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:47 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #185

ethanbond wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet obviously there are many laws that are enforced and do have disparate racial impacts... So this is just an airing of grievances.

Those laws aren't dog ownership requirements in New York City, though. Which is the topic I was replying to. It wasn't a statement about all laws everywhere.

They literally are: you are required to vaccinate and register your dog in NYC and your dog is required to wear proof of this vaccination at all times in public.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#204

Post by cdchn » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:49 PM UTC

hasty_pudding wrote: post #174

schwartzworld wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That blows my mind. I had two dogs as a kid, and if we didn't pick up the poop fast it destroyed the grass underneath. Their corner of the yard was all dead grass.

My dog has pooped in my backyard for years and nothing but thick quality grass everywhere. probably because most kibble is vegetable based and vegetable based poop is good for the grass. maybe you fed your dog more meat? if your dog's poop is killing the grass you're doing something seriously wrong with its diet.

Do your dogs urinate in your yard as well?

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#205

Post by zen928 » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:50 PM UTC

lukan wrote: post #158

zen928 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue, the native american tribes, who also did eat their dogs, treated them better overall, than humanity does today on average. So many dogs bred for running around, are lucky today, if they get to walk around outside for more than 20 minutes. This I would call betrayal. Do you relatively equate this to how we treat other animals right now, killing the planet's livable ecosystems while exclusively creatin…

"Do you relatively equate this to how we treat other animals right now" I only talked about dogs and humans.

Yeah, it's a bit narrow minded to exclude the rest of the historical context while comparing two isolated points in time. Sure makes an entirely emotion-driven plea look initially more compelling and legitimate though! Good for you on sticking to your preferred form of discourse.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#206

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:54 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #197

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as there are places where eating canids and felids is not taboo - so too are there places where eating a primate is not taboo. A larger geography by far as far as I know. By this argument and amount of places (not people), eating a primate might be less taboo than eating a canid or felid? As an American, I feel the same cultural taboos and they’ve kept me from eating some things but I’ve been reconsidering. Hors…

I think the issue with predators is that they taste "bad" compared to herbivores. Maybe we have evolved not to like they because of bioaccumulation, i.e. its not just a cultural norm. I cannot think of a land-dwelling meat-eating animal human routinely eat. We eat chicken, but they eat anything including rocks, and they're towards the bottom rank of good-tasting meats anyway.

Just depends on the timeframe. There was a period when black bear meat was very popular apparently.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#207

Post by ViktorRay » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:55 PM UTC

leosanchez wrote: post #179

sandspar wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it counts, that one country makes up 17% of living humans.

I know. I was just curious if there is any other country that revere cows.

Don’t forget Nepal!

Nepal’s population is 82 percent Hindu. This means many people from Nepal respect cows very much.

It is legal to eat beef in Nepal and many major hotels will serve it. However, it is illegal to kill a cow within the country.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#208

Post by entropicgravity » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 9:57 PM UTC

sema4hacker wrote: post #186

entropicgravity wrote: post #181

Humans and dogs were two borderline species until dogs were domesticated. But together the two were so complementary, that they never looked back. The dogs had the speed, teeth, smell and baby sitting while humans had the weapons, rock throwing, intelligence and cooking. It was and is a killer combination that rose to the top of the animal world on earth so far.

By baby sitting you mean dog hearing?

It's tricky for women to raise children in the wild. Especially once kids get to the ages between 2.5 and 8 when they'll want to explore their ever changing environment but mom still has to look for plants and berries and keep an eye any dangers and carnivores that are around. Dogs protect their own little ones in the wild and readily help to keep an eye on the human youngsters in the same way. Further more dogs will sound the alarm when needed. It's one more helping, important hand, that dogs bring to the bargain.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#209

Post by fsckboy » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 10:03 PM UTC

imzadi wrote: post #127

magicalhippo wrote: post #89

Reminded me of the experiment to domesticate silver foxes[1]. Apparently they got quite tame foxes in just 30 generations. Interestingly, while they were selected purely for lack of aggression towards humans they started to develop dog-like physical traits. Hasn't been replicated yet, and doubtfully will, but interesting. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

It's interesting, though, because anyone who has ever owned a cat knows that they are only barely domesticated. It might be something in the canine brain that makes it easy to domesticate them.

> anyone who has ever owned a cat knows that they are only barely domesticated

just speculating, but wolves are "pack" animals, so they are already adapted to cooperating with each other and following a leader. perhaps that made them easier to train and domesticate. cats aren't like that except in the "lion pride" breeding sense which is perhaps a narrower skillset in terms of utility.

and of course, anybody who has owned a tiger will tell you that a cat is fairly domesticated :) I mention it because "domesticated" and "useful as a friend" might be two different things.

Re: When did dogs become our best friends?

#210

Post by dmz73 » Mon, Mar 25, 2024, 10:07 PM UTC

prmoustache wrote: post #51

As a cyclist, I can't say dogs are my best friends. OTOH I have had great bonds with some cats.

I can't say cyclists are my best friends either. Just had two buzz me with with few mm to spare while walking to work. Yes, I was on the footpath, cyclists are not allowed to ride on footpaths here, there was a bicycle path right next to the footpath. If I was a dog that would be even more disturbing - a huge fast monkey trying to kill you (and your owner) while you peacefully walk.