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Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

cnn.com

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Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#91

Post by pmontra »

anon291 wrote: post #65
bombcar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other interesting thing about that is the cathedral seat of the Pope is outside the Vatican City - so it is in his religious territory as Bishop of Rome but not in his secular state.

It's also why St Peters is not the cathedral of Rome. It's not in Rome.

It's been not in Rome only since Vatican City came into existence in 1929. It's been in Rome every single year before then.

Saint John Lateran is also not in Italy [1] due to an extraterritoriality treaty in 1929, part of the same treaty that established Vatican City. By the way, that church is exactly 1700 years old this year.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbasilica_of_Saint_John_Lat...

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#92

Post by hannasanarion »

eadmund wrote: post #13
anon291 wrote: post #2

The article mistakenly refers to Sagrada Familia as the cathedral of Barcelona. It's not. It's a minor basilica, not a cathedral.

> The article mistakenly refers to Sagrada Familia as the cathedral of Barcelona. It's not. It's a minor basilica, not a cathedral. There may not be enough institutional knowledge at CNN about Catholicism that the editors would know that there is a difference between a basilica and a cathedral. This is the sort of thing that the folks at GetReligion.com were trying to address: not advocating any particular religion,…

I sincerely doubt that the New York Times as an institution is unaware of the fact that resurrection is a core tenet of Christianity. The BrietBlart-class right wing news media loves to make a big deal out of a hardly noticeable editorial mistake like the incorrect tense in an unimportant double-appositive clause.

Getting the difference between a Cathedral and a Basilica wrong is also not an example of "news media being anti-religion" because most religious people, including probably most American catholics, hardly know the difference since it's a piece of nomenclature that only matters if for some reason you've been charged with buying the right ceremonial hat for the guy in the back office.

Obviously they should correct it, because it's journalism's job to educate people, but I would stay far away from claiming it's any kind of institutional hostility to religion to make a typographical error or repeat a common misconception. Newspapers make these kinds of minor errors about all topics all the time: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/reader-center/corrections...

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#93

Post by prmoustache »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #8
amarant wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what "minor" means exactly in this context? I've seen the Sagrada familia, and it ain't small!

Organizational hierarchy of the Catholic Church: a building is a cathedral if and only if it is the seat of a bishop, no matter how grand or modest the building is. There can not be more than one cathedral in a diocese. But colloquially, Sagrada Familia is what most people would consider a cathedral.

Also a basilica can be a cathedral and vice versa. Saint-Denis in Paris is both a basilica and cathedral.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#94

Post by [deleted] »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #8
amarant wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what "minor" means exactly in this context? I've seen the Sagrada familia, and it ain't small!

Organizational hierarchy of the Catholic Church: a building is a cathedral if and only if it is the seat of a bishop, no matter how grand or modest the building is. There can not be more than one cathedral in a diocese. But colloquially, Sagrada Familia is what most people would consider a cathedral.

[deleted]

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#95

Post by mikey_p »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #48

Looking at the surrounding building of the Sagrada, just makes me wonder again, what the hell happened to modern architecture. Modern architecture has destroyed our cities. It's hard to find a building build after WO2 that's actually pretty, let alone an entire neighborhood. Nothing compared the historic cities of Europe. In a time when it's cheaper then ever to build, they've not been able to build anything even clo…

Check out Brent Hull on YouTube who is answering this very question. His basic premise is that post WWII the focus on efficiency and mass production ruined the craftsmanship that went into older buildings.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#96

Post by randomcarbloke »

mhd wrote: post #71
simonbarker87 wrote: post #26

I feel like the only person in the world who was thoroughly underwhelmed by it and really don’t see how its future space requirements for a staircase can be justified. This isn’t me trying to be edgy, I like cathedrals, this one (and his general style) just left me cold. Duomo in Milan was far better imo.

I liked other cathedrals better, too, but I got a lot out of it by contrasting the medieval versions with this. I mean, you got a lot of the same motivations, just with different art styles and materials. Reflecting on that, it made me change the way I view older churches. Granted, the LOTR of Lothlorien helped, too (I only saw the Sagrada Familia in 2022). To past generations, "Gothic" means something quite differen…

I can't help but see la Sagrada familia as "organic brutalism" I think it's quite vulgar despite also liking brutalism.

If it were not for the glass the interior would feel like a sixties community centre.

The exterior, a roughly shaped mound of excrement with some ornate extrusions. :)

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#97

Post by [deleted] »

hannasanarion wrote: post #92
eadmund wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article mistakenly refers to Sagrada Familia as the cathedral of Barcelona. It's not. It's a minor basilica, not a cathedral. There may not be enough institutional knowledge at CNN about Catholicism that the editors would know that there is a difference between a basilica and a cathedral. This is the sort of thing that the folks at GetReligion.com were trying to address: not advocating any particular religion,…

I sincerely doubt that the New York Times as an institution is unaware of the fact that resurrection is a core tenet of Christianity. The BrietBlart-class right wing news media loves to make a big deal out of a hardly noticeable editorial mistake like the incorrect tense in an unimportant double-appositive clause. Getting the difference between a Cathedral and a Basilica wrong is also not an example of "news media be…

[deleted]

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#98

Post by giraffe_lady »

rsynnott wrote: post #52
pradn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this odd split in American society that makes this possible. You can go through your entire life, end up a professional journalist at the Times and not actually have asked someone about their sincerely held faith and practice. Kids rarely talked about religion in HS, outside of like the Interfaith club. (I ran my high school's and we had an annual panel of a rep from each major religion. I was was quite popu…

Well, the other thing is that many, perhaps most, religious people don't know very much about their religion. Very few Catholics would know the difference between a cathedral and a minor basilica, say (which is what started this thread off in the first place). Actually, I'd argue that this isn't a religious question, anyway; it's administrivia.

Is that true? I wouldn't know what a minor basilica is per se but I definitely know what a cathedral is. I'm orthodox but I think nearly all lay orthodox christians can name their own bishop and the cathedral of his seat, the definition of cathedral being kind of implicit in that administrative awareness. Maybe it's different for catholics? I'll ask some, I am curious now.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#99

Post by trompetenaccoun »

pradn wrote: post #31
eadmund wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article mistakenly refers to Sagrada Familia as the cathedral of Barcelona. It's not. It's a minor basilica, not a cathedral. There may not be enough institutional knowledge at CNN about Catholicism that the editors would know that there is a difference between a basilica and a cathedral. This is the sort of thing that the folks at GetReligion.com were trying to address: not advocating any particular religion,…

There is this odd split in American society that makes this possible. You can go through your entire life, end up a professional journalist at the Times and not actually have asked someone about their sincerely held faith and practice. Kids rarely talked about religion in HS, outside of like the Interfaith club. (I ran my high school's and we had an annual panel of a rep from each major religion. I was was quite popu…

I have the opposite impression. Among Westerners Americans seem like the group where Christianity still plays the largest role in the average person's life. They talk about it a lot, to the point that I find it annoying. It's not just people who believe in it, the atheists and secular ones among them constantly complain about how bad religion is and how much they hate it. That's something you simply don't see in Western Europe, it's a topic that doesn't really come up much because most younger people don't care. They never go to church, they aren't involved with religious folks, they simply don't think about it at much.

The only other country I can think of that comes close would be Poland, if that counts as Western.

Re: Barcelona’s Sagrada Familia will be completed in 2026

#100

Post by nemo44x »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #48

Looking at the surrounding building of the Sagrada, just makes me wonder again, what the hell happened to modern architecture. Modern architecture has destroyed our cities. It's hard to find a building build after WO2 that's actually pretty, let alone an entire neighborhood. Nothing compared the historic cities of Europe. In a time when it's cheaper then ever to build, they've not been able to build anything even clo…

A few things. first off, we have code now. Until the 1950s you could do whatever you wanted. But nowadays there a bunch of things that need to be "up to code" and it's not just internals like electrical, etc. Stairways, railings, heights, room sizes, construction technique, etc are all affected by this. And we continue to add more and more code for things like efficiency, etc. And this isn't a bad thing - code means we have safer buildings and when someone buys a building there's at least a minimum standard that has been met.

So this means you are going to build in ways that are proven and will be up to code. Which leads to the second thing.

Construction materials have become standardized over the last 100 years or so. We went from a world where things were crafted to a world where things are manufactured and installed. Buildings are made mainly of commoditized parts and materials today which makes a lot of things look simplistic and similar. This is good in many ways because when a craftsman was hand carving things they were not very productive and it cost a lot of money. Today, a worker is amazingly productive since their tools are powered and their materials are pre-fabricated and just need to be cut to size.

Lastly, buildings are far more complex today than 100+ years ago. Lots more electrical and plumbing, complex HVAC, insulation requirements, etc. These things were not considered long ago. You had carpentry and maybe a bit of plumbing and some basic electrical.

You can still get really nice custom work done and it's unbelievable expensive.

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