Please don't learn to code • Hacker News Board

Re: Please don't learn to code

#261

Post by reeses » Wed, May 16, 2012, 2:07 AM UTC

sasha-dv wrote: post #218

reeses wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind how Bloomberg made the majority of his wealth. He has an idea of how software and hardware are made, deployed, and updated.

Bloomberg = a hypothetical non-techy boss

I can't tell if you meant that in a pejorative way, but are you sure? BSEE, started a "big data" company a thousand years ago which is still the "Xerox" of its industry.

I doubt he solders today, but he has the background to understand the interplay of software, hardware, delivery, etc. He has been noted to be very big into prototyping technology with his company's platform. You might say agile.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#262

Post by michael_fine » Wed, May 16, 2012, 2:40 AM UTC

wes-exp wrote: post #198

rozap wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I convinced a friend of mine that in Python, we only code using the letter "s". Why do you think it's called Python, after all? She believed me.

To be fair, all programs sort of get reduced to 1s and 0s. Given this fact, I don't consider the idea of coding only with the letter 's' that much of a stretch. You know, in lisp I code with parentheses!

Also, while being a joke, there is a language that uses only semicolons: http://pksunkara.github.com/semicolon/

Re: Please don't learn to code

#263

Post by danielrhodes » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:46 AM UTC

The problem with this article is that Jeff is confusing what would ideally be the case with how people should behave in the present reality. I bet no one would disagree that it would be fantastic if people didn't have to code to solve problems. However, in countless numbers of cases the solution to the problem is, with the absence an easier solution, to code it out. Therefore, if a person is in that position, it would be better if they knew how to code than not. Moreover, it would generally be good if more people were able to apply an engineering mindset to appropriate problems in order to find a solution (which programming helps you attain). Therefore, the more people who know how to code, the better.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#264

Post by devin » Wed, May 16, 2012, 6:48 AM UTC

All I know is I went to the HN homepage and I found some linkbait article by Jeff Atwood that was contrary to the other article I saw on the front page. Typical Bullshit.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#265

Post by Sniffnoy » Wed, May 16, 2012, 7:24 AM UTC

mithaler wrote: post #195

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

A good friend of mine recently tweeted[0]: "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it; those who do not study mathematics or programming are doomed to repeat themselves." [0]: https://twitter.com/#!/Sniffnoy/status/201187266197065729

Oh hey, so this is why this is getting so many retweets.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#266

Post by crasshopper » Wed, May 16, 2012, 8:11 AM UTC

SatvikBeri wrote: post #126

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

With a couple of months of programming knowledge, I wrote a program that saved my company $2MM/year. The key was combining knowledge of the business processes with some knowledge of programming. There were people with knowledge of one or the other, but not both. I still can't write a basic app, but that doesn't matter. I can do things that provide massive value, and I wouldn't be able to do them without programming k…

In terms of capital + human capital multiplying your effort, programming is pretty hard to beat. Compare sales calls, meetings with important people, instructions delivered to staff, farming with tractor; even hands-free investing requires a lot of time.

I think the most similar skill to coding is writing. John Updike remarked, several decades ago, that fiction creates value without destroying anything (ok, a trivial fraction of the value). But it's clearly not just about being able to put some words on a page.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#267

Post by tomdtpink » Wed, May 16, 2012, 8:46 AM UTC

Jeff is so full of himself.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#268

Post by kaiwren » Wed, May 16, 2012, 9:04 AM UTC

A fundamental grouse I have with the "Learn programming" meme is that it encourages the myth that you can be gainfully employed as a programmer after solving code snippets for a year. I've written this out in greater detail at http://blog.sidu.in/2012/05/everyone-should-learn-programmin...

Re: Please don't learn to code

#269

Post by kaiwren » Wed, May 16, 2012, 9:05 AM UTC

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

The problem is that the underlying message implies that the Mayor of NYC can be gainfully employed as a programmer after a year of solving code snippets. Which is BS and very misleading. More at http://blog.sidu.in/2012/05/everyone-should-learn-programmin...

Re: Please don't learn to code

#270

Post by 89a » Wed, May 16, 2012, 10:19 AM UTC

larrys wrote: post #230

ceol wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing that programming could solve a problem requires knowledge of programming. Someone with zero programming experience doesn't look at a problem and say, "Yeah I can write a script to solve that."

Sorry you're wrong based on my many years experience with dealing with non-programmers and this exact situation. Seeing what is already being done with computers on a daily basis gives people knowledge of what can be done without knowledge of programming. Knowing programming but not enough could also be an impediment as well. You may not realize there are simple ways of solving an issue that to you with your limited…

"Seeing what is already being done with computers on a daily basis gives people knowledge of what can be done without knowledge of programming"

Not true at all, people can use computers every day of their life in their job and still not even understand where a window goes when they minimise it.