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What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

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Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#121

Post by neomantra »

pierat wrote: post #81
hunter2_ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depending on who you talk to, Lebed was either viewed as a person who knowingly abused the system and broke the law, or someone ... actually performing no wrong-doing. Funny how selectively quoting a bit differently makes that appear far less so.

It all comes down to selective enforcement by the not-actual-real-judges at the SEC. You have to go through their kangaroo court with an ALJ, and arger likely getting a judgement against you, can you actually go to a real court. And this is combined with different rules for different income classes. Kid from middle income family gets smacked down hard. Whereas billionaire employees doing work on wall street either ge…

The Supreme Court is considering if Administrative Law Judges (ALJ [1]) are unconstitutional. SEC v. Jarkesy.

Fun fact: adherence to law is not required in an ALJ court. If one loses in ALJ, then one may proceed to appeal in a regular court where law must be considered.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/administrative_law_judge_(al...

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#123

Post by BrandonMarc »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #89
dataflow wrote: post #62

> The messages that Lebed posted would predict marked increases in the stocks value [...] In response to Lebed’s messages, trading volume of these stocks would soar I'm so confused reading the comments here. How in the world is anyone defending this?

> How in the world is anyone defending this? Suppose you're an ordinary trader who likes high risk bets. You find a stock you like, you buy some. Now you go on message boards telling everyone you think the stock is going to the moon straight away. This is your sincere belief. Soon the stock goes up 300%. You thought it was going to go up 1000%, that's what you said before, but hey, it still went up 300%, that's still…

Brings to mind this quote from the film The Big Short:

"Tell me the difference between stupid and illegal and I'll have my wife's brother arrested."

(based on the book of the same name by Michael Lewis, a name I've seen elsewhere in these comments: go figure)

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#127

Post by gmd63 »

Supermancho wrote: post #118
gmd63 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. Capitalism allows economies to accelerate the birth of new companies that benefit people. When it's policed and regulated poorly, yes, scammers can proliferate. So don't vote for politicians who lie without apology, and don't let people you don't trust manage your money or provide you with goods or services. Predatory people will exist with or without capitalism, only Capitalism is fine-grained democracy w…

> only Capitalism is fine-grained democracy where you vote literally every day with your dollar. I'm not sure where you get that from. Every economic model has trading, wherein the participants make trades (goods for goods). Capitalism is not democratic. Communism isn't democratic for a similar reason. The pareto principle (and natural hierarchies) appears and equality goes out the window for the traders.

It certainly is more democratic than any alternatives I'm aware of. If you don't want someone to accumulate more economic influence, do not pay them. The government will not jail you for doing so.

If business is controlled by a democratically elected government, and 49% of the country voted against those officials, there is no way for them to start their own alternative business to articulate those preferences in the market.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#128

Post by bayouborne »

cmcaleer wrote: post #10
hilux wrote: post #4

Interesting. A little googling turns up that 25 years later, he's still in the pump-and-dump business! Do what you love, I guess.

I found this Twitter account last posted to in 2014. https://twitter.com/lebedbiz I checked a good few of the stocks he listed. I figured he would have struck a lucky score at one point but he seemed to have an uncanny ability to always pick losing stocks. I was hoping for a happy ending like how many of the people I played Runescape with who hosted dicing games, speculated and flipped in-game assets became successfu…

Sep 3, 2012 I Am Legend.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#129

Post by matwood »

gnfargbl wrote: post #112
dataflow wrote: post #62

> The messages that Lebed posted would predict marked increases in the stocks value [...] In response to Lebed’s messages, trading volume of these stocks would soar I'm so confused reading the comments here. How in the world is anyone defending this?

I'm equally confused, but in the other direction! He was acting without any special knowledge, so the only thing he was taking advantage of was the gullibility of the general public. That's usually legal, no?

Talking your own book is basically CNBC in a nutshell.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#130

Post by EGreg »

everforward wrote: post #23
EGreg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire trading industry is a zero-sum game bro. For someone to win someone else has to lose. As is the advertising industry and surveillance capitalism industry that powers the “free web”. (Only at the edges is new value created. Most of it exists to have large institutionals take money from the small newbs, you’re the fish at the poker table.) And more broadly, capitalism exploits people. This is like blaming An…

> The entire trading industry is a zero-sum game bro. It's not, and even a cursory understanding of what zero-sum games are and how the stock market works would tell you that. How does the market grow if all trades are zero-sum? How do recessions happen if all trades are zero-sum? Some portion of trades are zero-sum, maybe even most of them. Stock markets don't function if every trade was zero-sum. Pump and dump sche…

The stock market grows because companies create value for real consumers. Companies serving the people.

But the stock market and its derivative markets are just people speculating on the price of the stock. So the vast majority of the value is a zero sum game.

Think of it like the "use value" of a house, vs a housing speculative bubble on top. They can pump, they can dump.

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