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What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

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51–60 of 182 posts

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#51
post #2

How is this any different than meme stocks on WallStreetBets?

He makes the case that this is no different from anything anyone does at all. The SEC is essentially a spam filter.

No, Lewis argues that SEC is a protection racket! They make a bunch of rules and regulations with the input of Wall Street so that Wall Street can pump and dump legally!! Congress will not touch this radioactive protection racket because they are doing insider trading on legal changes which should also be illegal...

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#52

He can afford college? In seriousness though: are analysts allowed to have an interest in stocks they're publishing analysis for? It seems like a fine line between creating an obvious conflict of interest (see: TFA perhaps on a more subtle level) and wanting them to have skin in the game so they're incentivized to provide useful analysis (rather than YOLO: stock goes up/down and I don't care because it's other people…

For both stock analysts and other types of analysts like IT industry analysts, it depends on the firm as far as I know and the rules may be more or less strict depending upon how involved they, or their fund, are with the given company. Generally, rules lean towards avoiding both conflicts of interest and the appearance of conflicts of interest.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#53
post #25
post #6

TL;DR: he argues that he did the same as everyone else on Wall street, so the SEC fines him $285,000, letting him keep more than half a mil of net profits. The system works as intended

The SEC only found wrongdoing in eleven trades, whose profit netted approx $272K. They did not penalize him for trades not found in violation of the law. Clearly, too long, didn’t read.

Again, not a real court. And no jury, and basically a fake judge.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#54
There was a recent decision out of Texas that pump and dumps are legal if you do them without directly selling stock to the victims. So I guess that according to Texas what this guy did is totally fine!

[PDF] https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rmMOgPQg...

or coverage from Matt Levine: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-03-21/pump-a...

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#55

Why is this page double line spaced? It's outrageous on mobile.

The page is from 2002, when "mobile" was pronounced "mob-eel" and the closest thing to a smartphone was an early version of the PalmPilot.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#56
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire trading industry is a zero-sum game bro. For someone to win someone else has to lose. As is the advertising industry and surveillance capitalism industry that powers the “free web”. (Only at the edges is new value created. Most of it exists to have large institutionals take money from the small newbs, you’re the fish at the poker table.) And more broadly, capitalism exploits people. This is like blaming An…

>The entire trading industry is a zero-sum game bro. For someone to win someone else has to lose. Traders add liquidity. That liquidity allows me to easily buy and sell stocks without waiting long periods or worrying about getting ripped off by the spread. And since the economy isn't zero-sum, it's possible for everyone to end up better than before.

Does trading stocks somehow cause an increase production of actual stuff? If not, I don't see how everyone ends up better off.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#57

Why is this page double line spaced? It's outrageous on mobile.

The page is from 2002, when "mobile" was pronounced "mob-eel" and the closest thing to a smartphone was an early version of the PalmPilot.

Our friends pronounced it "carrying around our computer towers and setting up folding tables to play Planetside and Stepmania all night". I think it’s a regional thing.

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#58
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire trading industry is a zero-sum game bro. For someone to win someone else has to lose. As is the advertising industry and surveillance capitalism industry that powers the “free web”. (Only at the edges is new value created. Most of it exists to have large institutionals take money from the small newbs, you’re the fish at the poker table.) And more broadly, capitalism exploits people. This is like blaming An…

> The entire trading industry is a zero-sum game bro. It isn’t in utility terms, which are the only terms that matter for whether something is actually zero sum. Under certain assumptions, it is in (e.g.) dollar (or other specific commodity) terms, but the whole reason markets work at all is that the no specific commodity ( including any fiat currency at any point in time) has a consistent relationship to utility acr…

How well does that utility argument play out when companies see fit to grant 0 dividend?

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#59
post #4

Interesting. A little googling turns up that 25 years later, he's still in the pump-and-dump business! Do what you love, I guess.

I found this Twitter account last posted to in 2014. https://twitter.com/lebedbiz I checked a good few of the stocks he listed. I figured he would have struck a lucky score at one point but he seemed to have an uncanny ability to always pick losing stocks. I was hoping for a happy ending like how many of the people I played Runescape with who hosted dicing games, speculated and flipped in-game assets became successfu…

Really? Merching in RS3 always seemed to be more of a pump and dump than anything that overlapped with real life quantitative investing

Re: What Happens When a Fifteen Year Old Pumps and Dumps with a Net Profit of $800k? (2002)

#60
post #16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Also the article mentions these were thinly-traded stocks. I assume the argument would be that today this sort of thing is happening because it's Tuesday. i.e. it's normalized and if you get burned, it's almost someone's civic responsibility to part you from your money.

Scammers who think it's their "civic responsibility" to dupe their fellow man with intentional fraud should think two or three times before committing to that logic. If they want to value someone's worth to the human team based on their gullibility to professional liars, it's not reaching very far for other like-minded logicians to value the scammers' worth based on their ability to navigate any other man-made stress…

The banksters are aware. Hence, doormen, gated communities, and commuting by helicopter.
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