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Is the Job Market Dying?

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Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#181

Post by benreesman »

benreesman wrote: post #100
zer00eyz wrote: post #8

No, it is not. For those of you who are new here (aka didn't live through the 2000 bubble) welcome to a shitty job market. 1. Your best bet to get a job is your network. If you were a clock puncher, if you didn't go above and beyond, if you aren't the person who is gonna make the co-worker who vouches for you look good... you are not gonna get much help in your network. 2. The next best bet is to either a) start your…

“Shitty job market” is an awfully charitable way to say “illegal, anti-market activity is de-facto sanctioned now”. We spent the lion’s share of the 20th century building a vast “sovereign wealth fund” of technology via effective partnerships between the public and private sectors (substantially though not exclusively under “defense” budgets of one kind or another): everything from the transistor to the laser to the…

Well, maybe I didn’t give the DoJ enough credit: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/21/technology/apple-doj-laws...

I’ll be convinced when they do NVIDIA and wage fixing, but they’re at least making some noise.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#182

Post by ianbicking »

ghaff wrote: post #156
ianbicking wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does seem like it would be a problem! Like if you imagine 50% of people have an easy time (1 month search) and 50% have a hard time (2 months) and each person had two searches with no correlation: The groups will be 25% each, ie .25 EH, .25 EE, etc., if you track only people who start looking for a job during the first month of their search. In the second month it will be 50% EH and 50% HH. So a total of 3/8 EH,…

Hard time = looking for the better part of a year or more. Not 2 months which is pretty common outside of the tech boom.

The numbers are all made arbitrary/simple just to check if the general property is true: even if there's no change in the market, if you sample job seekers you will find more people who feel the job search is harder because a hard job search means you are on the market longer and more likely to be surveyed.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#183

Post by Izkata »

ohyes wrote: post #128
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're either not American, very well-connected, or you graduated during a bull market and always had the "right" amount of experience.

American, not well connected, graduated right after the housing market crash, so I suppose it could be the last one. I don’t quite believe it myself (with people proffering 500 applications just to get one position) but I had a similar experience with online dating where my success rate was probably about 50% getting a positive response (and everyone seemed to bemoan their inability to get anyone to even talk to them…

> American, not well connected, graduated right after the housing market crash, so I suppose it could be the last one.

Maybe timing? Because your experience is roughly what I also remember in 2010/2011. Only applied to like 5 jobs and got one.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#184

Post by red-iron-pine »

zer00eyz wrote: post #102
codethatwerks wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with #1. Not entirely but it is about perception. Working an extra 10-20 hrs a week for free in return for a chance but no guarantee of a vouch is in itself a bad deal. So while you may have reasons for working long hours, hoping someone has your back is not a great one. Unless you have known them since you were 8 or something and even then.

If you have a job and they are hiring. Two former colleagues come in. Bob: he comes in, he does his work, he goes home. He's a good productive developer. Jane: She comes in, does her work, it's always documented and well tested. She is happy to roll up her sleeves and help the people around her out. She will pause to help you even if it means she gonna finish up at home. Your boss asks you: Your call who do we hire.…

Or it turns out that Bob went to the same University as half of the team, and they pick him for a culture fit.

Jane works hard but puts in long hours because she's just not very good and has to hustle to keep up even on basic tasks. She's helpful and kind to others because she understands their struggles, but can't hack new tech as well and will ultimately pause to help. Her well documented, working code takes 3+ weeks longer, and no one cares about Documentation.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#185

Post by red-iron-pine »

MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #87
aaomidi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who didn't put extra effort into a job that wasn't their own is not indicative that they won't for a job that is actually their own.

Unpopular to say, but probably is relatively strongly correlated. Yeah some people will be horrible at a regular job and amazing at a CEO of their own startup job, but I bet the qualities like good time management that make one successful at a regular job are qualities that would make one successful at the other. I’m open to being completely wrong here.

organizations created conditions of learned helplessness, cynicism, bitterness, etc.

like, studies have shown that most people think their jobs are, partially or wholly, bullshit. that may or may not be true, but once you've checked out, you're out.

meanwhile when you're a manager / owner / founder, you have a lot more control; no learned helplessness while swimming in an ocean of processes when it's just you and 6 other people.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#186

Post by red-iron-pine »

datavirtue wrote: post #54
sys_64738 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been in such a situation but I don’t do group stupid so got up and left.

Same here. CIO and my boss look up and I'm gone. My boss blows up my phone begging me to come back. Ruined my career there. My colleagues literally gushed over me and said they wished they had the courage to leave also. It was traumatizing for most involved.

you tanked your career because you couldn't do a simple, if silly and lame, group ice breaker thing?

like, just make some shit up. this shouldn't even be a thing. "I never learned how to ride a bike" or "I peed my pants while skydiving" or something. fake a couple of laughs, and then think about how much beer you're going to have after work.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#187

Post by Generous8030 »

Despite all the noise claiming the contrary, the market is shitty, and I think it will remain that way for the rest of the year. It's election year and it would look really bad on the incumbent for numbers to be "down", so ghost jobs and layoffs will continue (only way to prop stocks up)

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#188

Post by red-iron-pine »

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #92

It is very bad for juniors and new graduates. It's fine for seniors and good for seniors who have good skills and connections.

this has been my experience. had a couple people reach out to me for PM and DevOps roles, on the Sr / Manager level.

was metaphorically flirting with another group where the leadership were people I used to work for too, kept poking them to keep in touch, sounded like there may be some options. we'll see if they score more funding though; if not, they may not be able to offer roles or pay, but they keep talking like it'll happen...

Meanwhile on places like r/itcareerquestions and r/cscareerquestions it sounds like there are a lot of noobs and juniors fighting for a handful of roles.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#189

Post by ghaff »

ianbicking wrote: post #182
ghaff wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard time = looking for the better part of a year or more. Not 2 months which is pretty common outside of the tech boom.

The numbers are all made arbitrary/simple just to check if the general property is true: even if there's no change in the market, if you sample job seekers you will find more people who feel the job search is harder because a hard job search means you are on the market longer and more likely to be surveyed.

Yes, but a market where it takes a month longer vs. a year longer probably implies different behaviors.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#190

Post by PascLeRasc »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #160
fileeditview wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then the company just lays off Bob and Jane and thousands of others. Now Jane is angry because she committed a lot of her personal time for the company but was laid off anyways.. Don't be Jane.

Yeah, that happens. Jane gets a new job before Bob, though.

Bob learns to surf before Jane.
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