U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#721

Post by rkagerer » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

tamirzb wrote: post #587

aabajian wrote: post #358

The blue background on messages sent between two iMessage users has to be one of the most brilliant vendor lock-in strategies. It is an artificial form of discrimination. I feel a slight annoyance whenever a non-Apple user forms a group chat as I know that person will limit the messaging functionality. In my opinion, the "monopolistic" aspect of it comes down to the fact that they tied it into an otherwise open messa…

> On the other hand, I think the long-term sequalae of the blue-green message is to push people to use stand-alone apps like WhatsApp and FB Messenger I find it amusing that in 2024 people in the US still talk about WhatsApp as a future step. Where I'm from already 10+ years ago every single person you know would have a WhatsApp account. With WhatsApp, LINE, WeChat, Telegram etc. I think this is pretty much a solved…

Could also say it was 'solved' 30 years ago with ICQ (OK, I know it was centralized and insecure, but from a strictly user-experience perspective I honestly liked it better than anything that came since) or maybe 35 years ago with IRC.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#722

Post by astrange » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #493

ChuckMcM wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like it reflects similar actions taken against companies that are dominant in a market. The first one I heard about[1] was IBM versus Memorex which was making IBM 360 "compatible" disk drives. IBM lost and it generated some solid case law that has been relied on in this sort of prosecution. In the IBM case it opened up an entire industry of third party "compatible" peripherals and saved consumers a ton of…

> In the IBM case it opened up an entire industry of third party "compatible" peripherals and saved consumers a ton of money I’m curious what market opportunities the Apple suit could open up. - Xbox cloud game streaming - WeChat like super apps w e-commerce (X wanted to do this play but more likely Facebook Messenger and the like) - iMessage on android - a receipt tracking app or something directly tied into Apple P…

Super apps are a dud. China has them because the regulators want them, not because they're a good business.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#723

Post by feyman_r » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:44 PM UTC

empath-nirvana wrote: post #556

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

I like the app store, I like the restrictions, I don't want apple to change anything about it. I sort of think apple shouldn't try to comply with these sorts of potential lawsuits by making their app store worse, they should just let people jail break the phone and offer zero support for it. If people want to buy an iphone and shit it up, let them do it.

Does this chain of thought apply to any company or just to Apple? At what market share does this become a problem in your opinion? Or are we assuming that the market is ‘free’ and people wouldn’t buy such a device/service because of these ‘restrictions’?

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#724

Post by spywaregorilla » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:45 PM UTC

data-ottawa wrote: post #665

epolanski wrote: post #621

The number of people opposing these changes in this thread because "it will make their walled garden experience worse" without being able to bring up a single valid reason why would that be is astonishing.

My one fear for this is the leverage it gives large tech companies. What's to stop Microsoft, Meta, or Amazon from forcing you to download their own app store to use their apps? We kind of see this on PC already with every company having their own game or app store. When Chrome is on iOS and is pushed on every Google search, what happens to health of the web? Does that create a new web monopoly? It's not totally fair…

> What's to stop Microsoft, Meta, or Amazon from forcing you to download their own app store to use their apps?

Like Apple does now, except for every app.

> We kind of see this on PC already with every company having their own game or app store.

No we don't. Those are fringe and mostly unsuccessful. And even then, those companies should not have to pay 30% of their revenue to steam, so fuck that.

> When Chrome is on iOS and is pushed on every Google search, what happens to health of the web? Does that create a new web monopoly?

Forcing everyone to use Safari is a web monopoly.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#725

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:48 PM UTC

skeaker wrote: post #687

amadeuspagel wrote: post #611

> In 2010, a top Apple executive emailed Apple’s then-CEO about an ad for the new Kindle e-reader. The ad began with a woman who was using her iPhone to buy and read books on the Kindle app. She then switches to an Android smartphone and continues to read her books using the same Kindle app. The executive wrote to Jobs: one “message that can’t be missed is that it is easy to switch from iPhone to Android. Not fun to…

This behavior is so overt that I am constantly baffled that otherwise rational people continue to make up excuses for Apple. See also this article where they overtly state that the green bubble thing is deliberately intended to cause lock-in: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-an... I have been called a "violent criminal" on this very site because I criticized Apple's decision to remotely brick…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#726

Post by apatheticonion » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:48 PM UTC

Wow I am surprised to see this coming from the US. Though this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to actions the government could take to empower competition/innovation in the space. I wonder how far they will go?

Right to repair? Unlocked boot loaders? Driver schematics?

After seeing the EU crack down on monopolistic practices, I'm starting to feel hopeful that we might one day see competition, choice and innovation return to the modern computers.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#727

Post by covercash » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:48 PM UTC

empath-nirvana wrote: post #556

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

I like the app store, I like the restrictions, I don't want apple to change anything about it. I sort of think apple shouldn't try to comply with these sorts of potential lawsuits by making their app store worse, they should just let people jail break the phone and offer zero support for it. If people want to buy an iphone and shit it up, let them do it.

I agree with this take. My one concern is it has the potential to diminish the entire brand. Even with giant warnings about losing warranty/support when installing 3rd party app stores or side loading apps, at the end of the day the back of the phone has a big Apple logo on it. So when the customer fucks it up and Apple refuses to fix it, they’ll still blame Apple.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#728

Post by ineedaj0b » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:50 PM UTC

skeaker wrote: post #687

amadeuspagel wrote: post #611

> In 2010, a top Apple executive emailed Apple’s then-CEO about an ad for the new Kindle e-reader. The ad began with a woman who was using her iPhone to buy and read books on the Kindle app. She then switches to an Android smartphone and continues to read her books using the same Kindle app. The executive wrote to Jobs: one “message that can’t be missed is that it is easy to switch from iPhone to Android. Not fun to…

This behavior is so overt that I am constantly baffled that otherwise rational people continue to make up excuses for Apple. See also this article where they overtly state that the green bubble thing is deliberately intended to cause lock-in: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-an... I have been called a "violent criminal" on this very site because I criticized Apple's decision to remotely brick…

You can buy an android. It’s not hard. You can eliminate all your problems. The solution exists. I do find any further argument temping when not only can you buy an Android, you can buy a cheaper phone that does all the same things.

I do not angry when I use Netflix and the program I wanna watch is on Hulu. I do not complain to Hulu. They offer a app/website and I can buy it that very day. You can, this very day, buy an Android

I wish everything good was free too and I only had one app and one computer OS and didn’t have to choose between car brands too but that’s not Reality

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#729

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:50 PM UTC

skeaker wrote: post #687

amadeuspagel wrote: post #611

> In 2010, a top Apple executive emailed Apple’s then-CEO about an ad for the new Kindle e-reader. The ad began with a woman who was using her iPhone to buy and read books on the Kindle app. She then switches to an Android smartphone and continues to read her books using the same Kindle app. The executive wrote to Jobs: one “message that can’t be missed is that it is easy to switch from iPhone to Android. Not fun to…

This behavior is so overt that I am constantly baffled that otherwise rational people continue to make up excuses for Apple. See also this article where they overtly state that the green bubble thing is deliberately intended to cause lock-in: https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-an... I have been called a "violent criminal" on this very site because I criticized Apple's decision to remotely brick…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#730

Post by tiffanyh » Thu, Mar 21, 2024, 8:51 PM UTC

Fripplebubby wrote: post #287

For folks who don't have time to read a 90 page document, the case rests on specific claims, not just the general claim that iPhone is a monopoly because it's so big. Here are those claims: 1. "Super Apps" Apple has restrictions on what they allow on the App Store as far as "Super Apps", which are apps that might offer a wide variety of different services (specifically, an app which has several "mini programs" within…

> 3. Messaging interoperability

> 4. Smartwatches [interoperability]

Where do you draw the line on forcing interoperability?

This is kind of like (in-person) movie theaters.

Movie theaters don't allow you to bring your own food, you have to buy their food/drink.

Why should a movie theater be forced to allow patrons bring their own food?

Why should Apple be forced to allow it's patrons to brining competitive things to their business?

Note: I ask these questions out of genuine curiosity. Not to troll/stir-the-pot.