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Please don't learn to code

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231–240 of 273 posts

Re: Please don't learn to code

#231
While I disagree because I can't see why anyone would deny anyone else knowledge, there IS a mainstream fad about programming that seems to be out of touch with the reality of the thing.

I read an article not too long ago in one of Quebec's most important newspaper about how programming was becoming an essential skill (up there with reading and basic arithmetic), which it clearly isn't. Of course the author didn't help her case by confusing programming with setting up a wordpress site and changing its CSS.

IMO learning to code can't be a wasted experience. It's just not the life-changing, essential skill that increasingly more people make it out to be.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people don't know what programming even looks like My mom recently (2012) just asked me if when I'm programming, the screen is full of symbols, kind of like the matrix. Many people I know consider computers "illogical". We could do a lot to help people understand how a computer works, and the best way is through programming.

Actually, APL programmers do code with a screen full of symbols. http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_triangle#APL I'm beginning to think your mom is smarter for not knowing how to code, because she hasn't been biased yet by exposure to mainstream tools.

I understand your point, but I am having a hard time accepting use of the word "smarter" to describe ignorance.

Perhaps there is value in a blank slate, but that is definitely not being smart.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#233
post #230
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing that programming could solve a problem requires knowledge of programming. Someone with zero programming experience doesn't look at a problem and say, "Yeah I can write a script to solve that."

Sorry you're wrong based on my many years experience with dealing with non-programmers and this exact situation. Seeing what is already being done with computers on a daily basis gives people knowledge of what can be done without knowledge of programming. Knowing programming but not enough could also be an impediment as well. You may not realize there are simple ways of solving an issue that to you with your limited…

If "a little knowledge can be dangerous", why learn anything ever? That's a really pisspoor reason to tell people to be ignorant.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people don't know what programming even looks like My mom recently (2012) just asked me if when I'm programming, the screen is full of symbols, kind of like the matrix. Many people I know consider computers "illogical". We could do a lot to help people understand how a computer works, and the best way is through programming.

Actually, APL programmers do code with a screen full of symbols. http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_triangle#APL I'm beginning to think your mom is smarter for not knowing how to code, because she hasn't been biased yet by exposure to mainstream tools.

There's a usefulness to coming at a problem from a completely new direction, but it's orthogonal by virtue of being orthogonal. Why is the alphabet the best way? Couldn't we express ideas better? (And I actually keep an eye on the constructed language space, so I actually know people who say, "Yes.")

Re: Please don't learn to code

#235
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people don't know what programming even looks like My mom recently (2012) just asked me if when I'm programming, the screen is full of symbols, kind of like the matrix. Many people I know consider computers "illogical". We could do a lot to help people understand how a computer works, and the best way is through programming.

And I convinced a friend of mine that in Python, we only code using the letter "s". Why do you think it's called Python, after all? She believed me.

Actually, you can get pretty close by coding in Semicolon:

http://pksunkara.github.com/semicolon/

Re: Please don't learn to code

#236
post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

With a couple of months of programming knowledge, I wrote a program that saved my company $2MM/year. The key was combining knowledge of the business processes with some knowledge of programming. There were people with knowledge of one or the other, but not both. I still can't write a basic app, but that doesn't matter. I can do things that provide massive value, and I wouldn't be able to do them without programming k…

I wrote an online attendance system for my school, which often come with way more features than we need and cost in the range of $50k. It's not $2 million, but $50k is a teacher's salary. In education, that's huge. It took me 2 weeks to set up, and another 4 weeks of testing with teachers to iron out all of the bugs, but now it is used every day by all of our teachers.

I've also used my ability to code to develop learning apps for my students. It's been incredibly valuable in my career.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#237
If we attempt to look into the future, I think we see that computers are likely to permeate every aspect of our culture. If they continue to decrease in size as they have been doing, they may actually end up being embedded in much of the stuff we use.

We should also notice that programming itself has a huge gradient in terms of difficulty. Things like Scratch, and other block programming languages make the act of programming easier, where amateur developers can focus more time on trying to solve the problems they are working on, and less time figuring out which parenthesis they missed.

So we have two trends - that programming is becoming easier to do, and that computers are becoming more common. Both of these lead me to the conclusion that not being able to program will eventually be akin to being illiterate. You won't be able to use and modify many of the tools of the future without some programming skill.

Further, many people are developing some of the core programming skills in pieces. Look at http://ifttt.com/ for example. This is an example of using apps as procedure calls, and writing very short subroutines to handle tasks for you. It is a perfect example of how programming is beginning to permeate popular culture.

Soon, telling people not to learn how to program will be much like telling people not to write or not to do math - it will be a bit ridiculous. We will just need to be able to use better systems for keeping track of who is an amateur, and who is a professional, much like we do with writing and mathematics.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#238
What an idiot. If nothing else, learning basic coding skills allows you to have a grasp of what's possible, what's hard, what's easy and what's trivial. Even if Bloomberg never codes a line in his job, that background knowledge can manifest in 100 different ways, and will allow him to be a better manager of people and systems. We would all be much better off if every congressman took a 2 week course in programming.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your initial statement doesn't make sense anymore in the new context you're trying to paint. You're building a strawman here. Absolutely nobody said that programming should be taught " from 1st to final grade in school, 10 hours every week ". And in school you're not learning just " reading, writing, math, communication and similar ". Other disciplines learned in school are biology and its branches, like botany or an…

I don't really know what your argument is, except that you somehow think I'm revising my comment "trying to paint a new context" and even "building a strawman" to boot. Yet you offer no explanations for these very rude remarks. The parts in my comments about cooking, 10 hours pr week, and the short list of subjects, are all merely examples. Replace it with car repair, 2 hours a week and your informative list of schoo…

Car repair, 2 hours a week for a quarter or so would be an excellent use of most students' time (with minor the exception of people who live in the biggest cities and never drive). You're missing the point of the people rebutting your argument, which is that cooking, programming, car repair, and many other day-to-day subjects are more important than many of the subjects that you take for granted as being necessary.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#240
post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

A good friend of mine recently tweeted[0]: "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it; those who do not study mathematics or programming are doomed to repeat themselves." [0]: https://twitter.com/#!/Sniffnoy/status/201187266197065729

Awesome. Thanks.
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