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Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

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Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#581

Post by dragonwriter »

ericmay wrote: post #580
dragonwriter wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Japan can change this on a whim with one meeting of the legislature. They literally cannot. > You think Japan can't change its own laws? It can't amend the Constitution just with a vote in the Diet; it requires a supermajority in both Houses followed by a popular referendum.

China would attack US bases in Japan and that would trigger whatever needs to be triggered for Japan to enter the war. There’s no way that China would try and invade Taiwan while also not trying to stop the US from intervening.

I mean, if we are going to assume “China attacks Taiwan” means “China attacks US bases in Japan” we might ad well assume it means “China preemptively carpets Japan with nukes rendering any Japanese response irrelevant”, but in any case, no one is arguing that Japan would either not react to an actual attack on Japan that left them capable of response or would require Constitutional changes to do so. But “Japan” and “Taiwan” are still different things.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#582

Post by 4gotunameagain »

rabite wrote: post #521
4gotunameagain wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> US led NATO expansion lead to the war in Ukraine, and Europeans are paying the price. This is the Russian propaganda of 2 years ago, and we know it is a lie because Putin went on camera and told us so himself. When asked by Tucker Carlson why he invaded Ukraine he gave a half hour history lecture telling us about its history of Russian occupation. Putin justifies his murderous invasion by pointing to former borders…

You cannot dismiss something as "propaganda" or with a reason "Putin said so". In the same interview Putin said that if the US had not broken the promise to Gorbachev to not expand the NATO eastward, the war would not have happened.

I am not an American with no serious understanding, I live in an area that used to be Soviet Union.

Everybody knows you should not corner a wild beast.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#583

Post by rabite »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #582
rabite wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US led NATO expansion lead to the war in Ukraine, and Europeans are paying the price. This is the Russian propaganda of 2 years ago, and we know it is a lie because Putin went on camera and told us so himself. When asked by Tucker Carlson why he invaded Ukraine he gave a half hour history lecture telling us about its history of Russian occupation. Putin justifies his murderous invasion by pointing to former borders…

You cannot dismiss something as "propaganda" or with a reason "Putin said so". In the same interview Putin said that if the US had not broken the promise to Gorbachev to not expand the NATO eastward, the war would not have happened. I am not an American with no serious understanding, I live in an area that used to be Soviet Union. Everybody knows you should not corner a wild beast.

> In the same interview Putin said that if the US had not broken the promise to Gorbachev to not expand the NATO eastward, the war would not have happened.

Yet this contradicts his statements in 2002 that it was not a big deal and not his business. He only changed positions when he viewed the Russian economy as big enough to wage war and take territory.

There was also no such promise, this is a complete myth.

Russia is doing what it has always done: try to steal more clay. They have been doing this for a thousand years, far before NATO. Russia was neither cornered nor threatened.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#584

Post by 4gotunameagain »

Abroszka wrote: post #508
4gotunameagain wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prospect of regional wars or worse makes you feel safe ? Do you think that if Ukraine was not being courted by US that it would've been invaded like that ? Multiple political analysts, US ones included, say that this would not have been the case. Wars are only good for those in power, in both sides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations...

> Do you think that if Ukraine was not being courted by US that it would've been invaded like that ? Invaded? Probably not. Becoming a second Belarus? Yes. Overall it would have meant a Russia - NATO border closer to me. I prefer an Ukrainian - Russian NATO border far, far more.

If you give me a choice between Ukraine being a second Belarus and risking WWIII or a nuclear exchange, my answer will be easy to choose.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#585

Post by mywittyname »

dragonwriter wrote: post #554
shiroiushi wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Japan cannot get involved unless the US is directly attacked, their constitution and laws governing use of the JSDF are very explicit in forbidding any use other than defending themselves or the US. Japan can change this on a whim with one meeting of the legislature. You think Japan can't change its own laws? >If (when?) Taiwan gets China'd, that by itself cannot serve as a casus belli for Japan. Wrong. I don't know…

> Japan can change this on a whim with one meeting of the legislature. They literally cannot. > You think Japan can't change its own laws? It can't amend the Constitution just with a vote in the Diet; it requires a supermajority in both Houses followed by a popular referendum.

Laws are just words on paper. They are irrelevant without people to follow and enforce them.

It is very common for Constitutional laws to be suspended in the event of war. Even without suspension, all it takes is a leader with enough support to ignore the law.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#586

Post by 4gotunameagain »

whimsicalism wrote: post #550
Abroszka wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US led NATO expansion lead to the war in Ukraine, and Europeans are paying the price. As an Eastern European, I cannot thank the US enough for pushing NATO. It makes me feel safe. I'm just sad that they could not get Ukraine into NATO before all this madness started.

NATO doesn’t take countries with active border conflicts and for good reason. I am glad that NATO did not take Ukraine then, even if I am open to it once this conflict resolves.

NATO does nothing to resolve an active occupation between member states (Cyprus).

NATO only does things when it benefits the US.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#587

Post by ericmay »

dragonwriter wrote: post #581
ericmay wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China would attack US bases in Japan and that would trigger whatever needs to be triggered for Japan to enter the war. There’s no way that China would try and invade Taiwan while also not trying to stop the US from intervening.

I mean, if we are going to assume “China attacks Taiwan” means “China attacks US bases in Japan” we might ad well assume it means “China preemptively carpets Japan with nukes rendering any Japanese response irrelevant”, but in any case, no one is arguing that Japan would either not react to an actual attack on Japan that left them capable of response or would require Constitutional changes to do so. But “Japan” and “…

Since the US would come to the defense of Taiwan, it would use assets in the region so that includes naval and air assets. The air assets are based in locations such as Guam and Japan (among others). The US would launch sorties from those bases amongst others.

Can you think of a scenario in which China would attempt the worlds all-time largest amphibious invasion of Taiwan and then let the US just fly missions and drop in supplies or attack Chinese assets and not respond to the bases themselves? It seems incredibly unlikely to me.

There aren't any nukes that need to be involved here. Certainly there are potential scenarios in which those do get used, but neither the Chinese nor Americans have any strong desire to escalate a conventional war into a nuclear war. The scenario you are assuming would also include China and the US nuking each other and so that scenario itself is a bit silly whereas China attacking US air bases in the lead up to or during an invasion of Taiwan without escalating to nuclear weapons is a pretty serious scenario.

I get your point about Japan not being able to change their constitution so quickly and I don't disagree, but I think any scenario in which Taiwan is invaded and the US comes to its defense will drag Japan in to the war sufficiently enough that it will justify whatever it needs to do.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#588

Post by creato »

gen220 wrote: post #572
creato wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They closed because it was cheaper to build in other countries, or to outsource from contractors who build in other countries (where organized labor doesn't exist). The U.S. lost thousands of high-paying (and tax-paying) labor positions and atrophied the skills that went with them. Intel profited from it. This doesn't make sense, Intel did and still does most of its manufacturing in the US, didn't it? (See: https:/…

Their DoD and Dod-adjacent business (read: high-nanometer) processes are largely in the U.S. Their consumer and server business (read: low-nm) processes are largely international. The wikipedia page you linked evinces this statement. The phrase "most of its manufacturing" is a Simpson's Paradox statement. It's true, but not in a way that's interesting. High-nanometer processes are easier to automate.

All of the "low-nm" process fabs on that wiki page are in the US (with one in Ireland).

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#589

Post by Spooky23 »

fireflash38 wrote: post #425
Spooky23 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardware people get boned. I worked at a non-semiconductor tenant company in a semiconductor research campus/facility. Parking lots tell the story. There was a pecking order for the lots, which made it easy to classify. The best off working people were the trades guys. The plumbers and electricians were high-skilled and well paid. Like guys commuting 2,000 miles and buying a second $90k F-250 to drive around town in.…

I don't think you can draw conclusions from that, considering you have absolutely no idea who is in massive debt for those vehicles. Especially with tradesfolk because the vehicle is a business expense.

People making good money tend to not, as a cohort, drive 8 year old cheap cars.

And of course ymmv between companies, regions, facilities or projects. There are software people trapped maintaining stupid legacy insurance code and similar dreck too.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#590

Post by 4gotunameagain »

rabite wrote: post #583
4gotunameagain wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot dismiss something as "propaganda" or with a reason "Putin said so". In the same interview Putin said that if the US had not broken the promise to Gorbachev to not expand the NATO eastward, the war would not have happened. I am not an American with no serious understanding, I live in an area that used to be Soviet Union. Everybody knows you should not corner a wild beast.

> In the same interview Putin said that if the US had not broken the promise to Gorbachev to not expand the NATO eastward, the war would not have happened. Yet this contradicts his statements in 2002 that it was not a big deal and not his business. He only changed positions when he viewed the Russian economy as big enough to wage war and take territory. There was also no such promise, this is a complete myth. Russia…

It seems like you are way too invested in this and unable to think clearly. I'm sorry if it has affected you negatively, it is a terrible situation for everybody except the elites.

However, blame is never black or white. It cannot be all Russia's fault.

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