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U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#131

Post by amelius »

gnicholas wrote: post #13

> The Justice Department, which began its investigation into Apple in 2019, chose to build a broader and more ambitious case than any other regulator has brought against the company. As I was reading the specific charges detailed in the article, I was thinking this case seems like a stretch and will be difficult to prove. Apple will argue that security and/or performance reasons drove their decisions related to brows…

> Apple will argue that security and/or performance reasons drove their decisions related to browser choice, messaging, and Apple wallet

Then why, for the sake of the argument, do they allow third party browsers, messaging and payments on MacOS ?!?

Apple makes it sound like MacOS is horribly insecure.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#132

Post by starbugs »

mjburgess wrote: post #91
boringg wrote: post #22

It looked surprisingly pretty weak to my non lawyer eyes. I mean I fully understand that apple business practices are building a moat through highly integrated software but its almost a feature for their system and you buy it knowing that. It feels like it goes back to Android vs Apple approach to their ecosystem.

Monopoly law needs to be reinterpreted in light of network effects. It's not merely the integration which is a problem, it's how that + network effects gives apple undue market power to dictate terms to its users, devs, etc. Being a middleman between users and devs, say, takes on a different character when you're a 2-3T biz at the heart of the economy.

Exactly. From my point of view, nobody needs to be a lawyer to see that this can't stand as it is. There are two major operating systems for each form factor. In the last ten years, no other vendor has been able to successfully place a new OS on the market. If there wasn't a monopoly (or duopoly or oligarchy or whatever you wanna call it), then this would have happened. And this appears mainly to be due to network effects and the high complexity of the underlying systems.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#134

Post by trynumber9 »

Good, computers should not be locked down by trillion dollar companies.

The problem with having the App Store is there is still no opt out (in the US). It works on Mac OS; there's no technical reason for them to avoid giving the user choice. It's all about capturing and holding an entire market.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#135

Post by CharlesW »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #97
Nifty3929 wrote: post #44

Apple has about 60% of the smartphone market in the US, and about 25% globally. That's a pretty big stretch to call it a monopoly. There are many non-apple phone options that many consumers easily avail themselves of. And at least one other OS choice as well. All of these are fully supported by the entire ecosystem of telcos. Seems like bullying to score political points to me.

Standard oil was at 64% when it was broken up in 1911. Absolute market share isn't the only factor that goes into determining monopoly. You also get different numbers from different definitions. Apple controls 100% of the iOS market, or ~80% of the mobile subscription market, etc.

> Apple controls 100% of the iOS market…

This is like saying Y Combinator controls 100% of the Hacker News market, or that Amazon controls 100% of the AWS market. It's a non-sensical argument.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#136

Post by lenerdenator »

tiahura wrote: post #67

If Apple wanted to, they could drag this out for a decade. In the end, there are probably some details of what they've done with Imessage or the store that you could convince a jury are "unfair." It's good to know that with everything going wrong on this administration’s watch, they’ve got their laser focus on vacuums, video games, and phones.

[flagged]

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#137

Post by phone8675309 »

CharlesW wrote: post #95
photochemsyn wrote: post #75

One of the most annoying features of the iOS ecosystem is the great lengths they take to prevent easy export of data out of the iOS system to other non-Apple devices. E.g. ever tried exporting Safari bookmarks on iOS to a Linux system running Firefox? A simple JSON file is all it would take, but no, you have to sync with a MacOS computer or some such: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254567613

> One of the most annoying features of the iOS ecosystem is the great lengths they take to prevent easy export of data out of the iOS system to other non-Apple devices. Not only do they not prevent it, but they facilitate it. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102208 Exported data includes users' bookmarks and Reading List.

Only works if you use iCloud, which I don't.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#138

Post by [deleted] »

lenerdenator wrote: post #130

I think there's a large contingent of people who want more access and choice with apps and services on their iOS devices. And frankly, that's what Android is for. Just go get a Samsung Galaxy. EDIT: You can downvote it all you want, but part of the appeal of iOS devices is that you have your workable service for the device and there's no real thought to be put into choosing that service. Not everyone wants different…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#139

Post by moralestapia »

boringg wrote: post #22

It looked surprisingly pretty weak to my non lawyer eyes. I mean I fully understand that apple business practices are building a moat through highly integrated software but its almost a feature for their system and you buy it knowing that. It feels like it goes back to Android vs Apple approach to their ecosystem.

>It looked surprisingly pretty weak to my non lawyer eyes.

* tin foil hat on *

That may be by design. If the outcome of this is "no monopoly", then it's a win for Apple.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#140

Post by overstay8930 »

smoldesu wrote: post #21

How do you think Apple will differentiate their case from United States v. Microsoft Corp. , where Microsoft was implicated for almost identical monopoly misconduct? The complaint literally says verbatim, "But after launching the iPhone, Apple began stifling the development of cross-platform technologies on the iPhone, just as Microsoft tried to stifle cross-platform technologies on Windows."

Because unlike the Microsoft case, you have the option to buy a smartphone from a company other than Apple. 1990s Microsoft was quite literally a monopoly, nothing like what is going on today.

Apple is not stopping their competitors from making good phones, just like how Apple is not stopping you from buying a phone that wasn't made by Apple. Microsoft was doing both of those things, Apple isn't. The cases aren't even close really.

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