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U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#91

Post by mjburgess »

boringg wrote: post #22

It looked surprisingly pretty weak to my non lawyer eyes. I mean I fully understand that apple business practices are building a moat through highly integrated software but its almost a feature for their system and you buy it knowing that. It feels like it goes back to Android vs Apple approach to their ecosystem.

Monopoly law needs to be reinterpreted in light of network effects.

It's not merely the integration which is a problem, it's how that + network effects gives apple undue market power to dictate terms to its users, devs, etc.

Being a middleman between users and devs, say, takes on a different character when you're a 2-3T biz at the heart of the economy.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#92

Post by dragonwriter »

bruce511 wrote: post #50
smoldesu wrote: post #21

How do you think Apple will differentiate their case from United States v. Microsoft Corp. , where Microsoft was implicated for almost identical monopoly misconduct? The complaint literally says verbatim, "But after launching the iPhone, Apple began stifling the development of cross-platform technologies on the iPhone, just as Microsoft tried to stifle cross-platform technologies on Windows."

Is Apple even a monopoly though? In the Microsoft case Microsoft had 90+% of desktop market share. (And propped Apple up to create even a semblance of competition.) They were accused of leveraging that position to prevent manufacturers etc from getting out of line. Apple, on the other hand shares the market with Android. Globally it's a minority share. Yes, in the US, Apple has a bigger market share than it has globa…

> Is Apple even a monopoly though?

Do they have pricing power? You can select any boundaries you want for markets to come up with any market share number you want, but the key empirical test is is there actual substitution effect or does Apple have the ability to charge monopoly rents. One of the major points of walled gardens is to create vendor lock-in and prevent price conpetition, and Apple has been masterful at that.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#93

Post by tiahura »

tiahura wrote: post #67

If Apple wanted to, they could drag this out for a decade. In the end, there are probably some details of what they've done with Imessage or the store that you could convince a jury are "unfair." It's good to know that with everything going wrong on this administration’s watch, they’ve got their laser focus on vacuums, video games, and phones.

Realtime: I'm actually watching the US Attorney General crying about blue bubbles.

I need a drink.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#94

Post by jqpabc123 »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #44

Apple has about 60% of the smartphone market in the US, and about 25% globally. That's a pretty big stretch to call it a monopoly. There are many non-apple phone options that many consumers easily avail themselves of. And at least one other OS choice as well. All of these are fully supported by the entire ecosystem of telcos. Seems like bullying to score political points to me.

Apple has about 60% of the smartphone market in the US, and about 25% globally.

This case is about the US marketplace, globally is irrelevant.

And it is about more than just marketshare. Apple's tactics restrict the entire marketplace --- not just Apple captives.

Whole classes of apps are simply not practically possible on Android without paying monetary tribute to Apple.

For example, universal messaging is not possible without paying the Apple gatekeeper. Few people will use a messaging app if it can't communicate with 60% of their friends. And the only to make this happen is to pay Apple.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#95

Post by CharlesW »

photochemsyn wrote: post #75

One of the most annoying features of the iOS ecosystem is the great lengths they take to prevent easy export of data out of the iOS system to other non-Apple devices. E.g. ever tried exporting Safari bookmarks on iOS to a Linux system running Firefox? A simple JSON file is all it would take, but no, you have to sync with a MacOS computer or some such: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254567613

> One of the most annoying features of the iOS ecosystem is the great lengths they take to prevent easy export of data out of the iOS system to other non-Apple devices.

Not only do they not prevent it, but they facilitate it. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102208

Exported data includes users' bookmarks and Reading List.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#96

Post by [deleted] »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #87
retskrad wrote: post #62

I've heard all arguments against Apple's practices, and to me, they all basically come down to 'it's unfair that so many people like to live inside the Apple walled garden'. When it comes to the law, Apple is not a monopoly. When it comes to competition on the market, Apple is competing with Android and Windows, and the vast majority of the world's middle and upper class willingly choose Apple products. Even if you l…

I think Google search and apples ecosystem are extremely different. Google search is trivial to leave, any one can switch to bing by just typing a different address in the URL bar. Switching off of apple products is painful and difficult and it's by design. My wife and I switched from iphone to Android over a year ago and we're still fighting with apple to stop routing some text messages to iMessage when it should be…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#97

Post by AlotOfReading »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #44

Apple has about 60% of the smartphone market in the US, and about 25% globally. That's a pretty big stretch to call it a monopoly. There are many non-apple phone options that many consumers easily avail themselves of. And at least one other OS choice as well. All of these are fully supported by the entire ecosystem of telcos. Seems like bullying to score political points to me.

Standard oil was at 64% when it was broken up in 1911. Absolute market share isn't the only factor that goes into determining monopoly. You also get different numbers from different definitions. Apple controls 100% of the iOS market, or ~80% of the mobile subscription market, etc.

Re: U.S. sues Apple, accusing it of maintaining an iPhone monopoly

#100

Post by KerrAvon »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #49

This article actually has the complaint: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/apple-sued-do...

The actual complaint leads off with the iBooks thing, which is a terrible start. Apple lost that case and it shouldn’t have; to this day, that result enables Amazon’s effective monopoly on paid ebooks.
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