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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#631

Post by harimau777 »

ipaddr wrote: post #588
harimau777 wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? In my experience outside of the few major cities (New York, LA, etc.) there are only high rises in the very downtown of large cities.

Highrises are just apartments. Very large like Columbus Ohio? https://borror.com/high-rise-apartments-columbus-ohio/ Waterkloof, Maine https://www.booking.com/hotel/za/menlyn-maine-high-rise-1-be... Pikeville, Ky http://hapky.org/myers-towers.html

I guess I tend to think of "high-rise" as a synonym for skyscraper. Something in the neighborhood of 10+ stories. I'm fairly certain that Columbus at least doesn't have many residential buildings that high outside of its downtown.

However, if we are counting 3 or so story apartments then there are definitely high-rises all over the place like you say.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#632

Post by digging »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #616
digging wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the sound from a modern car with a functioning muffler is wind noise What? Like wind hitting the extremely aerodynamic surface of the car designed specifically not to catch the wind? I have never heard or read this in my life - it is widely known that tires-on-pavement is the biggest contributor of car noise. That roar you hear standing a quarter mile from a busy highway is not wind, it's the tires. > "Elec…

> What? Like wind hitting the extremely aerodynamic surface of the car designed specifically not to catch the wind? Like the sound of a hundred cubic feet of metal displacing the air at 40 MPH and leaving vacuum in its wake, yeah. That they're designed to be aerodynamic is the reason they're not that loud. > That roar you hear standing a quarter mile from a busy highway is not wind, it's the tires. Now you're talking…

> Now you're talking about highways. People don't typically drive at highway speeds on city streets.

That was an illustrative example. Tires typically overtakes engine noise at about 25mph. That's city street speeds. (In most car-dependent cities 40-50 is also typical city street speed.) Again, this is why tires are the majority of car noise. When you hear a car pass by on a non-highway road, you're mostly hearing tires.

If wind is a serious factor either you need to publish your secret findings or link me to some research I'm not finding.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#633

Post by shortsunblack »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #384
s_dev wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France already has some of the most densely populated cities in the world, Paris is #32. French cities feel less congested than the likes of US cities because it has better cycling infrastructure and public transport options. High population density is not a cure for the bias car infrastructure imposes on a city. So your recipe will need to take more in to account than just density. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List…

How does that linked Wikipedia page not contain any cities in China, which in my experience are more dense than just about anywhere else in the world?

China is deurbanizing and dedensifying. It's a popular myth that Chinese cities are dense. Density peaked a decade ago.

This will spell economic worries someway down the road as maintenance upkeep costs start to kick in.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#634

Post by Phil_Latio »

TwoFerMaggie wrote: post #575
Phil_Latio wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post you replied to said it is GETTING WORSE. Paris is getting worse in his lifetime, in his expirience. You can't then come along and say > I would argue that the relative freedom of movement forces residents in Europe to confront the inequality in their everyday lives. Imagine you see China today, let's say Shenzhen skyline. 20 years in future you go there and all lights are out, windows are broken and homeless…

I quoted the phrase "it's feeling more like a third world country" verbatim, which is the part I have issue with. I also said "I get the sentiment", meaning that I understand what they were trying to express (that it's getting worse). I don't know what you were disagreeing with though? > You can't then come along and say Of course I can. That is also my experience. According to OP many third world countries they visi…

You don't get it.

> but imo it's just because they have the power to sweep the problem under the rug

OP talks about decline in a certain place. It has NOTHING to do with sweeping problems under the rug. Why not? Because the "under the rug sweeping" didn't happen 20 years ago either! So why did things get worse, instead of better? Because of bad policies, number #1 being bad migration policies which is not merit based. This happend in whole western Europe and turns cities into what OP described, while eastern Europe cities remain what was Paris 20 years ago. So please stop denying OP or anyone to say "wow, it got so much worse here over the years"....

Now the reason I write in an angry way and the reason I'm so upset, is that there is no solution to these problems. Quite the opposite, it will only get worse. But that's another topic. So sorry if my words were a little aggressive.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#635

Post by maxglute »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #384
s_dev wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France already has some of the most densely populated cities in the world, Paris is #32. French cities feel less congested than the likes of US cities because it has better cycling infrastructure and public transport options. High population density is not a cure for the bias car infrastructure imposes on a city. So your recipe will need to take more in to account than just density. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List…

How does that linked Wikipedia page not contain any cities in China, which in my experience are more dense than just about anywhere else in the world?

PRC cities are not particularly dense. Population densities in cities within a country tend to follow zipfs law, which would predict BJ and SH to be 3-4x larger than it currently is. Many economists and urban planners was suggesting PRC should densify tier1 about 10 years ago. But hukou anbd industrial policy seems to be designed to limit megacity sizes to redirect popuation towards growing 3rd, 4th+ tier cities into their own economic hubs. IMO trying to avoid SKR/JP where everyone rushes to a few economically viable regions.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#636

Post by shortsunblack »

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #424
mrguyorama wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the famous "actually americans donate a lot" nonsense. That report is based on SELF REPORTED donations. IE, giving Joel Olstein $10k to help him buy a new private jet is considered "charitable giving" and is also considered more charitable than if you just chat up the Asylum family that was just settled next door and help them get integrated into the local community to help them network and find work and frie…

You're ranting incoherently. Americans give the most to non-religious organizations and charities by a wide margin (both individuals, corporations, and the government). For instance, the US government allocates $7 billion+ annually to the UN World Food Programme [1]. The next biggest donor? $1.7 billion. It's not even close. And no, $150 million in claimed charitable giving in 2020 is provably false. One ultra-rich i…

Giving 7 billion to a food programme is irrelevant when you have policies that enslave Global South to monocropping and force them to import your exports with IP laws (GE seeds) or when you have protectionist subsidies (as U.S. notoriously does) that makes your own exports not competitive. The harm of U.S. policy to the aid recipients is far in excess of 7 billion+, as you claim here.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#637

Post by rldjbpin »

being a broke outsider in the city, it has been very difficult to exercise my rights especially in terms of housing.

from my limited experience it seems that while in richer neighbourhoods there might be some diversity, it is not the case everywhere. there has been a move to grow the city outwards and move newer social housing further out. but the historically poorer neighbourhoods more or less seem to remain in their older state.

however you rationalize it, one ends up questioning whether it is worth living in the city given the challenges in finding a place.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#638

Post by mrcartmeneses »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #603
cycomanic wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original post was complaining about increasing density and how investment in public transport hasn't kept up. The previous poster said what about bikes, and you are now saying that bikes are not a solution to people coming from the greater Paris region. But that was not what we are talking about, we were talking about higher density (=more people) in Paris proper. Bikes are certainly a solution to transport in th…

Only part of my answer was about people coming in from afar. The other, about there being nowhere to store bikes, as well as questionable quality of the biking infrastructure is about the city itself. Edit: I'm actually saying this as someone who enjoys and actually does bike. When living in the city proper, I think there are very few routes for which the bike isn't the quickest method of transportation. For my commu…

Bike storage was never a problem for me living in London, even when I lived on a tiny canal boat. I can’t imagine Parisian’s bicycles are that different nor their homes much smaller than a boat or my 75m2 flat. Yes, I also have a cargo bike for transporting kids. The only thing stopping anyone from cycling is their anxiety and sense of car-owing identity

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#639

Post by lern_too_spel »

retinaros wrote: post #546
lern_too_spel wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paris is mostly flat. As long as you aren't racing to work, sweat shouldn't be an issue.

it is not flat at all

"Other than the hill of Montmartre and the Belleville area, the terrain of Paris changes less than the height of a ten story building."

Hence, mostly flat.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#640

Post by underlipton »

robertlagrant wrote: post #619
underlipton wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything built post-GD (which is going to be the vast majority of what you service) was likely touched by government subsidy in some fashion, whether grants, loans, or municipal bonds (tax-exempt, so effectively a subsidy). "Company towns" built before then were often subsidized, in effect, by companies not having to bear the financial burden of their many, many instances of illegal or rights-infringing behavior. Tha…

You could equally say that tax money is all private money, so really it's all private. It's silly to talk about the provenance of money in these topics.

You absolutely cannot. That's the entire point.
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