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Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

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Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#21

Post by [deleted] »

multimoon wrote: post #13
defparam wrote: post #7

I too disagree with the Canada ban, however I think the regulators are more concerned with how easy this can be done with a flipper zero. The moment you took out a soldering iron to build an antenna filter you've increased the complexity to the point where the regulators are no longer concerned. Yes this is still very dumb imho.

It’s typical politician shortsightedness, as there will just be another product that arises. Banning one of the many specific parts to do an illegal thing rarely ever makes the illegal thing harder to do.

[deleted]

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#22

Post by TehCorwiz »

defparam wrote: post #14
TehCorwiz wrote: post #9

I'm responding to the people saying this is still out of reach for most people due to requiring soldering. Less than 30 seconds of searching shows that I can buy an RTL-SDR USB dongle and kit for about $40 which can also analyze the 433Mhz band and more. This ban is ridiculous on its face.

Absolutely agree the ban is ridiculous, but lets not now humbly hide the fact that FZ makes this way easier than the workflow shown in the video. Even ignoring the antenna construction you still need to record the data and post process it using a laptop and 3rd party software.

An Android smart phone and SDR dongle with antenna will fit in your pocket easily. No construction required. Apps already on the Android app store.

Here's the thing about easier; A determined car thief probably has access to purpose built devices and given the financial incentive will probably put more time into solving this "problem" than an amateur. I would argue that knowing this attack is possible is more than half way there because it opens up avenues of research.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#25

Post by defparam »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #22
defparam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree the ban is ridiculous, but lets not now humbly hide the fact that FZ makes this way easier than the workflow shown in the video. Even ignoring the antenna construction you still need to record the data and post process it using a laptop and 3rd party software.

An Android smart phone and SDR dongle with antenna will fit in your pocket easily. No construction required. Apps already on the Android app store. Here's the thing about easier; A determined car thief probably has access to purpose built devices and given the financial incentive will probably put more time into solving this "problem" than an amateur. I would argue that knowing this attack is possible is more than ha…

It arguably would have been smarter for FZ to show a video using an SDR dongle/android phone than hobbyist antenna construction if they were trying to drive home the point of simplicity.

Advocating on behalf of the devil: ease of access for determined attackers is not the concern. It's more the undetermined attackers they are worrying about enabling. (again I do not agree with law as the solution to this)

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#26

Post by not_a_real_56 »

I do not agree with the ban, but I would like to provide some context as a Flipper Zero (F0) owner and someone who is in several F0 communities and have used a few different firmware besides the official one.

There are a lot of younger kids in the community who have the F0 and are just looking to cause havoc. Joining these communities and looking for the jamming files and want to open every Tesla charging port they come across. Or when the device gained the Bluetooth spamming capability, people wanted to use that everywhere.

Normally these people are promptly dismissed or kicked from the server, but it is a constant influx of these people.

There are plenty of people who use the F0 properly either for work and just learning about signals, or a multitool making their day a little easier. And plenty of new features are coming out every few weeks from the amazing unofficial firmware developers.

I think the question, instead of banning devices, should be to make sure we are teaching people strong morals and that there are possible consequences to their actions.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#27

Post by jrochkind1 »

kkielhofner wrote: post #17
defparam wrote: post #7

I too disagree with the Canada ban, however I think the regulators are more concerned with how easy this can be done with a flipper zero. The moment you took out a soldering iron to build an antenna filter you've increased the complexity to the point where the regulators are no longer concerned. Yes this is still very dumb imho.

Upvoted and completely agree. Bans of Flipper Zero are ridiculous but Flipper should have run this by a "lay person" (sales, PR, marketing, an intern). Stripping a wire, showing a schematic with a diode and resistor, winding wires, soldering iron, etc just further proves the point of the regulators. Meanwhile in the beginning of the video they show decoding the signal with the pocket-sized Flipper Zero with the push…

I follow you, but the use case they mentioned to propose the ban is stealing cars. I'd figure a car theft ring is sufficiently motivated to figure out how to solder.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#28

Post by LinuxBender »

Will this stop someone from making a device that has the same and more capabilities but doesn't look like a Flipper Zero much in the way most HAM radio manufacturers design the radios to be super easy to unlock some/all bands? e.g. a smart phone USB add-on that does all FZ's tricks and more after you move a jumper.

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#29

Post by DaSHacka »

Retr0id wrote: post #15

Outside of the context of the ban, this is a bit of a self-own imho. You indeed do not need a flipper zero to learn about and play with RF. In fact, you learn more without one, as demonstrated in the video.

I think the FZ's selling point is it does more than just RF

I know this has probably been said to death, but it really is a "jack of all trades, master of none"

Re: Response from Flipper Zero to the Canada Ban

#30

Post by iknowbettah »

defparam wrote: post #7

I too disagree with the Canada ban, however I think the regulators are more concerned with how easy this can be done with a flipper zero. The moment you took out a soldering iron to build an antenna filter you've increased the complexity to the point where the regulators are no longer concerned. Yes this is still very dumb imho.

attack complexity is weird and often flawed, e.g. you think attackers need advanced hardware, but then someone does it woth a MCDonalds Toy. Same for software stuff.
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