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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#601

Post by twelve40 »

Zamiel_Snawley wrote: post #528
twelve40 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they don't; it's just not practical. You have to be relatively fit and energetic to do it every day, have no chores like kids pickup, have extra time on your hands, the weather has to be perfect - no rain or god forbid snow. This only works for a particular segment of working people out there.

The Dutch beg to differ[0]. Over a third of Dutch people cycle as their most frequent mode of transport. Over a quarter of all trips are on a bike. 49% of primary school students and 75% of secondary school students cycle to school. Cycling has been a national priority for the Dutch, like the automobile has a been a priority for much of the rest of the developed world. With e-bikes, fitness and terrain are less relev…

according to your own numbers, 64% of the Dutch don't use bicycle as their most frequent mode of transport. Meaning that bicycling doesn't work for the majority of population even when it is made a national priority. I'm all for it, but the numbers you've listed prove that it's simply not practical for most people in the best of times.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#602

Post by wtcactus »

This measure, as most welfare measures, punishes the middle class - the ones that pay, out of their own pocket the taxes that fund the welfare state.

It’s the same story all over Europe: the middle class sees close to 50% of their income taken away in taxes and contributions, and then is left paying for most of their expenses out of their own pocket.

Meanwhile rich people only pay a fraction of what they earn in taxes, and “poor” people get most stuff for “free”.

The saying is really correct: if you take half of someone’s wage to distribute for two people that didn’t do the same effort, you loose a vote, but you gain two.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#603

Post by vladvasiliu »

cycomanic wrote: post #563
vladvasiliu wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you live in the city proper. But what that doesn't mention: the bike sharing schemes are hit-and-miss. I usually commute each way a good hour before rush-hour traffic, so I have a good probability of finding a usable bike. But during rush hour? Fat chance. Oh, you're going to point out that there's a scheme helping you purchase your own bike? Indeed. What are you going to do with it, though? At home, you may…

The original post was complaining about increasing density and how investment in public transport hasn't kept up. The previous poster said what about bikes, and you are now saying that bikes are not a solution to people coming from the greater Paris region. But that was not what we are talking about, we were talking about higher density (=more people) in Paris proper. Bikes are certainly a solution to transport in th…

Only part of my answer was about people coming in from afar. The other, about there being nowhere to store bikes, as well as questionable quality of the biking infrastructure is about the city itself.

Edit: I'm actually saying this as someone who enjoys and actually does bike. When living in the city proper, I think there are very few routes for which the bike isn't the quickest method of transportation. For my commute, which is pretty much a best-case scenario (modern metro with few to no issues, goes in a fairly straight line, don't have to change lines, stations close to both home and the office) the bike is much faster: 20 instead of 30 minutes.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#604

Post by verisimi »

digging wrote: post #556
verisimi wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, they are closing roads making them one way etc, that creates the traffic problem. It's bad governance - creating pain to allow government to administer the preordained 'solution' - no cars! Moving to car less city is the goal, but, as others note, the infrastructure is not there. So you're just pushing cars out... with no real answers being provided. How is that good government? And the roads you call mismanagem…

This has nothing to do with my comment or what I was replying to, which was a comment about crowded public spaces.

[flagged]

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#605

Post by vladvasiliu »

mrpopo wrote: post #442
vladvasiliu wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you live in the city proper. But what that doesn't mention: the bike sharing schemes are hit-and-miss. I usually commute each way a good hour before rush-hour traffic, so I have a good probability of finding a usable bike. But during rush hour? Fat chance. Oh, you're going to point out that there's a scheme helping you purchase your own bike? Indeed. What are you going to do with it, though? At home, you may…

Safe (locked) bike parks are popping up everywhere in Paris

Where everywhere? I haven't seen any recently. Are those being up in underground parking lots? (I don't have a car, so I never go there)

I've even read an article in Le Parisien (local-ish paper) about how some of those bike storage units were actually removed for some reason.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#606

Post by verisimi »

digging wrote: post #560
verisimi wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Roads create traffic and viable alternatives to driving reduces it. Any child, idiot or PhD urban planner and traffic engineer can tell you this. So, in the past, the governance structure used taxes to install roads and encourage car use.. (ie they were children, idiots and bereft of PhD urban planners). But now, it's using taxes to remove roads and discourage car use. How sage they are, not idiotic at all. Go go g…

Yes, some actions have bad outcomes and some good. Are you saying everything the government does objectively makes life worse? Then you should be furious about driving anyway, because the government effectively forced you into it.

Yes. I think government was acting immorally back then, far exceeding whatever people required and acting in support of powerful interests (petrol companies, industry). Now it is far, far worse, with government seeking a level of micro management and control over people that is abhorrent to me - control of travel, energy, water, money, location, etc.

And amazingly, most people want it! Because they have been mis-educated by this immoral institution. They want to force others into this or that action, not because those others have done something wrong, but because they are convinced of an idea and think it is ok to use force to get their preference. It's a sort of tyranny in the name of 'morality', only the moral element of 'do no harm' is ignored.

The recalcitrant will be helped whether they want it or not!

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#607

Post by vladvasiliu »

twelve40 wrote: post #500
harimau777 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do people deal with being sweaty at work? Do offices generally have showers?

they don't; it's just not practical. You have to be relatively fit and energetic to do it every day, have no chores like kids pickup, have extra time on your hands, the weather has to be perfect - no rain or god forbid snow. This only works for a particular segment of working people out there.

I'm not so sure that's an issue for the general population.

My main gripe is actually availability of bikes in the bike-sharing scheme, since I can't bring up my own in the office, and since I work in a shady area, there's no way I'd leave it outside for the day. I also like the flexibility of not having to use my bike both ways. Think catching a movie or whatever after work and possibly getting a drink with friends. Although this is related to not wanting to leave the bike unattended for any period of time.

But nowadays, with electric bikes, unless you live on top of Montmartre hill (and even then), I think it's no longer an issue. I have a colleague who takes her two children to school on bike before riding into the office (she works in a different office, where they have an interior yard with bike racks). Her bike's got electric assistance and she doesn't seem to arrive out of breath or anything. She also doesn't seem exceptionally sporty.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#608

Post by johnchristopher »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #247
6bb32646d83d wrote: post #137

Unfortunately it means it's extremely hard to live in Paris if you're middle class. If you're upper middle class/rich, you can rent/buy. If you're poor, you get a chance to get public housing. If you're middle class, too bad for you.

Wowow, the rich have had it tough since the 90s (only the French born before 1988 or so will understand the video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1N3WXZ_1LM

> Wowow, the rich have had it tough since the 90s (only the French born before 1988 or so will understand the video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1N3WXZ_1LM

Hahaha, it's not one of my favourites these days but it was all over the place at that time :D.

edit: here's a more recent take https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maObYlDIRcw

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#609

Post by darby_eight »

throw__away7391 wrote: post #485
darby_eight wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> security Oh come on, the NYPD swallowed 5 billion in public funds, the most of any city on earth. Crime is near an all-time low. Hell, they could probably slash half that budget without causing the crime sprees the NY post implies could happen at any time. This is the worst excuse to avoid funding subsidized housing when the latter would probably have a greater impact on whether people were desperate enough to turn…

This is simply not true. > they could probably slash half that budget without causing the crime sprees You're living in a world painted by your politics and oblivious to reality. I plan to return to the city someday if things improve, but things are horrible now and not moving in the right direction.

> but things are horrible now and not moving in the right direction.

Nobody ever backs shit like this up. You've been had and in the most obvious and shallow manner.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#610

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

mlrtime wrote: post #576
mattzito wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all respect, “didn’t see a car for hours on a typically busy midtown avenue”, even during peak covid, is bananas if for no other reason than the ambulances were going almost constantly (ymmv based on where you live). But I distinctly remember watching the odd car here and there and wondering where they were going. And things were quieter! There was the background noise of machinery and buses and cars but it was…

Living in Texas and Manhattan you should aware that we very good at adapting to our surroundings. The relative noise is not comparable between rural Texas and Manhattan. I agree the city was quieter during covid, and would be quieter without cars. It's ridiculous to debate otherwise. But a major is vastly noisier without cars than any normal suburb with the rare car passing by a residential street. NYC will always be…

Noise pollution in big cities, particularly nyc, ranked starting from the worst factoring frequency:

Sirens

Construction

Buses

Semintrucks / public machinery (trash, etc)

Subway

Belligerent people

Lunatics

Inconsiderate people on motorcycles

Cars

Buildings / HVAC

Cars are near the bottom of the list

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