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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#511

Post by robertlagrant »

bedobi wrote: post #420
robertlagrant wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of the decently-paying jobs in services, tech, etc. that these communities rely on essentially make the world a worse place, but they're profitable, and people gotta eat. If those jobs are paid for by voluntary customers, then that's fine. If they're subsidised through taxes of people who don't want them, that's the issue I'm mentioning.

there is no job on this planet that isn't subsidized by taxes how do people show up to work at Google, Apple etc? through everything from "not dying from preventably disease in adolescence" to "being educated in public schools" to "being carried to work on roads and transit paid for by the public"

> there is no job on this planet that isn't subsidized by taxes

As in if I am a private plumber who does jobs for people, my job is subsidised by taxes?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#512

Post by dctoedt »

rayiner wrote: post #487
dctoedt wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But is subsidizing people to be service workers for wealthy Parisians a good public policy and good use of public funds? Given that each of us is allotted exactly 8,760 hours in a year: Is it good public policy to force non-wealthy people to spend so many more of those hours in commuting than those who can afford to live closer to their jobs? I live in a small, separately-incorporated city, a few minutes from downt…

> Given that each of us is allotted exactly 8,760 hours in a year: Is it good public policy to force non-wealthy people to spend so many more of those hours in commuting than those who can afford to live closer to their jobs? Wouldn't it be better to direct public policy and funding to helping create jobs elsewhere and leave the wealthy urban people make their own coffee?

> Wouldn't it be better to direct public policy and funding to helping create jobs elsewhere and leave the wealthy urban people make their own coffee?

That’s certainly worth exploring too. But there’s a reason I no longer mow my own lawn nor do my own auto maintenance: I flatter myself that I’m now more productive for the larger community when I do work that uses the skills I’ve spent years developing.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#513

Post by verisimi »

bedobi wrote: post #493
verisimi wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I didn't say any of that. Walk or ride - do whatever you like. But in the new world, one option will have been removed - driving. I'm not cheering the loss of that. I'm for free choice. You seem to be arguing in favour of removing other peoples' choices. And you think that's right! Who made you (or the Paris mayor) king/queen of the world? I'm also saying, artificially creating issues by removing roads, making th…

I fundamentally disagree with every single word and every thought that led you there > Walk or ride - do whatever you like. But in the new world, one option will have been removed - driving. I'm not cheering the loss of that. I'm for free choice. You seem to be arguing in favour of removing other peoples' choices. And you think that's right! Who made you (or the Paris mayor) king/queen of the world? Akshully it's all…

> Roads create traffic and viable alternatives to driving reduces it. Any child, idiot or PhD urban planner and traffic engineer can tell you this.

So, in the past, the governance structure used taxes to install roads and encourage car use.. (ie they were children, idiots and bereft of PhD urban planners).

But now, it's using taxes to remove roads and discourage car use.

How sage they are, not idiotic at all. Go go government! Double helpings please!

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#514

Post by HenriTEL »

_3u10 wrote: post #168
mumblemumble wrote: post #33

My understanding is that excise taxation is generally agreed upon as the preferred method for governments to manipulate the market, both because it incurs fewer deadweight losses and because it tends to actually work better. So, what if we get rid of all these complicated rent control and rent freezes and affordable housing schemes, and instead just implement a rent tax, to be paid by the landlord, and make it progre…

Most demand for houses is from people. Most price increases are due to a lack of supply that exceeds population growth. Most lack of supply is caused by it being illegal to build higher / more dense, and a variety of other rules and regulations. Landlords are for the most part capitalizing on these broader market / regulatory trends.

No, price increase is mostly due to inflation trends. When there is an inflation trend the house market follows, for example in London, after the start of the war in Ukraine things like gas and gasoline price went up which created a legit price increase for products that depends on those. But we've also seen an increase in rent. And that's because estate agents knew that since there was an inflation trend people were expecting to pay more. So the whole market went up with no significant change in supply and demand.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#515

Post by justin66 »

MeImCounting wrote: post #375
justin66 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States the AR or shotgun will generally be kept in the car. It's fairly common to see automatic weapons in Mexico, depending on where you are. (I don't remember how the Canadian police typically do things. I think I was dazzled by how attractive the police officers in Canada are compared to the United States, particularly in Montreal, but they definitely carry pistols and wear kevlar...)

I havent really spent much time in mexico but in my experience cops in canada also generally keep long guns in the car.

Thanks. It's not too surprising that Canada would do things similarly to the US, perhaps sans some of the over-the-top use of surplus military equipment and with fewer donuts.

By all accounts, heavily armed security (and I'm sure it's not just sworn law enforcement officers, but also private security) in tourist areas are a bigger thing in Mexico than elsewhere in North America.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#516

Post by justin66 »

TeaBrain wrote: post #476
justin66 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume by "machine guns" you mean rifles, and by "open carrying" you mean "carrying." (there's no way to carry a rifle concealed) I have no idea what "D.F." is. Another response above mentioned that American cops generally keep the long gun in the car. Since today we've got National Guardsmen with rifles in the NY subways acting as police, this conversation all feels a little tone deaf, but it's fair enough to poin…

DF is an abbreviation of Distrito Federal, a name for Mexico City. It was changed officially in 2016 to just Ciudad de Mexico/CDMX.

Thanks!

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#517

Post by enaaem »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #106
mebazaa wrote: post #34

As a Parisian, who is generally angry at the city’s housing policy (build taller!), I find the public housing of the past few years to be a great achievement. In general, public housing sits on the outer edges of Paris, but the city has been agressive in reconverting buildings in posher neighborhoods. It doesn’t really lead to reduced rent (because no additional supply), but it decreases social segregation. That alon…

> build taller As someone who lives in an area with plenty of high-density residential buildings, I can attest that this is a perfect recipe for creating congested cities with such intense light and noise pollution.

Cities aren’t loud. Cars are.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#518

Post by lern_too_spel »

harimau777 wrote: post #462
mpweiher wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [increase friction for cars...no improvement to public transport] Hmm...aren't you forgetting something? Last I checked, Paris had a veritable bicycling revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Paris Le Plan vélo de Paris (2015-2020) doubled bicycle lanes to 1000km and increased ridership (apparently already high?) by 50% or more. The current plan is to add another 180km and make Paris 100% cyclable.

How do people deal with being sweaty at work? Do offices generally have showers?

Paris is mostly flat. As long as you aren't racing to work, sweat shouldn't be an issue.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#519

Post by mlrtime »

the_gastropod wrote: post #464
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "NOISY FROM WHAT?" Sirens, people yelling, loud music, construction, etc.

Credentials: Lived in NYC for 10+ years Sirens: valid. But those suckers are usually attached to vehicles People yelling: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when someone is yelling, it's some doofus in a car yelling at some other doofus in a car. Loud music: not often in my experience. And the usual offender when there is loud music, it's some doofus playing loud music in their car. Construction: vali…

I'm not going to argue the point that cars aren't loud they are!

However, in Manhattan the city is still very loud with 0 cars. Meaning in the middle of the night in midtown, not a single car, the city itself hums with a constant noise that is not healthy.

Witnessed this during covid when I didn't see a car for hours on a typically busy midtown avenue, but the city is still very very loud compared to a suburban setting.

So, we get rid of all cars, then what? You still live in a noisy city. No thanks.

Credentials: 5 years in midtown, 15 years downtown Manhattan.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#520

Post by Phil_Latio »

TwoFerMaggie wrote: post #444
Phil_Latio wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is stupid argument. He/She was talking about something relative, that is, relative to what it was 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. You can't come along and pick some worse example from another place. With the same logic you could say wages don't need to increase for the next 20 years, or police can be defunded because more crime is not so important, because the 3rd world is off way worse...

> with the same logic you could say... The comment I replied to said "it's feeling more like a third world country", I replied "no it's not even close to an actual third world country". I don't see how you could then derive that I meant "therefore it's not important". Are third world countries the only place where things need fixing?

The post you replied to said it is GETTING WORSE. Paris is getting worse in his lifetime, in his expirience. You can't then come along and say

> I would argue that the relative freedom of movement forces residents in Europe to confront the inequality in their everyday lives.

Imagine you see China today, let's say Shenzhen skyline. 20 years in future you go there and all lights are out, windows are broken and homeless people everywhere, streets are filled with dirt and woman are scared to go out when it gets dark. If I then tell you "well, looks like some poor people moved there, everyone is moving closer together, that's why we see some problems here"..... Nooo! It would be some massive government failure that is responsible.

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