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Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

nytimes.com

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Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#301

Post by ribosometronome »

bluGill wrote: post #286
notact wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the conditions and steps necessary to engage autopilot during landing? What are the failure conditions, and the steps necessary during a malfunction when autopilot is engaged?

On a clear day with perfect conditions ground control can probably get you on the ground and you walk away safely. The plane may not be safe to fly again, but you walk away. When there is bad weather (common) or other mechanical issues you need a lot more training, and of course if you want the plane to survive to fly again you want some more training. The only hard part is contacting ground control in the first plac…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/05/20/passengers-...

WaPo tried it out last year and only the fellow who was used to WW2 plane simulators was successful at a probably didn't die landing.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#302

Post by jjtheblunt »

pwthornton wrote: post #274
rhelz wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did this happen in the first place? By not pursuing protectionist public policies. > the taxpayer is on the hook for $8.5B $8.5B is a big price tag, but whether the government should spend it or not depends on whether or not the investment pays off.

This is way bigger than trade policies. Intel was the world leader in chip-making until fairly recently. Steve Jobs wanted them to build the iPhone chips because they were a generation or two ahead of any other fab in the world. Today, Intel is no longer leading the world in chip fab process. Intel at the time wasn't interested in fabing ARM chips, and the rest is history. Intel and American fabs fell behind for a nu…

to your point, right around the time of the iPhone (roughly)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XScale#Sale_of_PXA_processor_l...

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#303

Post by smallmancontrov »

bluGill wrote: post #277
nonethewiser wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are also underestimating the intelligence of people in the once very large manufacturing workforce.

It doesn't help that the union culture is opposed to promoting smart people. If you work an assembly line you are not better than anyone else on the line, so their position makes sense - smart people are not worth more. However it also means smart people that want to move to management (want - if you are content that is your choice) find things worse: you are required to start at the bottom and your previous experien…

The decline in American manufacturing happened alongside a decline in union membership in manufacturing. If unions were the causal factor, why do these trends coincide rather than oppose?

Alternative theory: Protectionism industrializes and trade liberalization deindustrializes. Alexander Hamilton's protectionist policies weren't just successful at industrializing the USA, he and his successors were correct as to why they were successful. The relatively recent shift to trade liberalization, by contrast, had the generally accepted effect of such policies on the industrial base. Of course, assets got pumped along the way and that's what really mattered to the people in charge.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#305

Post by plantwallshoe »

autoexecbat wrote: post #174
hollywood_court wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine we’d have that skilled workforce if companies paid enough. I’m a former construction contractor who reinvented myself as a software developer. Each time I run into one of my former peers in the construction industry I hear the same complaints from them. “We can’t hire any good help.” Yet they are still paying the same non living wages that they have for 30 years.

The type of work does matter. If I had the choice between a low-pay office job and a low-pay physical labor job, many would pick the office.

You, sure.

Half the dudes in my high school class couldn’t manage to write a coherent 5 paragraph essay, so low pay office work is not really an option for them.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#306

Post by markhahn »

rhelz wrote: post #299
pwthornton wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is way bigger than trade policies. Intel was the world leader in chip-making until fairly recently. Steve Jobs wanted them to build the iPhone chips because they were a generation or two ahead of any other fab in the world. Today, Intel is no longer leading the world in chip fab process. Intel at the time wasn't interested in fabing ARM chips, and the rest is history. Intel and American fabs fell behind for a nu…

> Intel at the time wasn't interested in fabing ARM chips, and the rest is history. Fun fact, in the late 90's, Intel was the biggest manufacturer of ARM chips. I was there at the time, and I wrote lots of software to aid in their design. What happened to Intel was twofold: The first problem was that Robert Noyce, Andy Grove, And Gordon Moore died. Each one was a once-in-century intellect, and it took Intel a while t…

It's also interesting that Intel made some specific bad technical choices.

(ie, not investing in EUV, assuming SAQP would work forever, ignoring the consequences of everything being power-limited...)

This kind of decision is hard, because it's a technical-economic tradeoff, and the latter is more voodoo than math. And that's not even addressing whether you get surprised by things like the LLM boom...

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#308

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

rhelz wrote: post #299
pwthornton wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is way bigger than trade policies. Intel was the world leader in chip-making until fairly recently. Steve Jobs wanted them to build the iPhone chips because they were a generation or two ahead of any other fab in the world. Today, Intel is no longer leading the world in chip fab process. Intel at the time wasn't interested in fabing ARM chips, and the rest is history. Intel and American fabs fell behind for a nu…

> Intel at the time wasn't interested in fabing ARM chips, and the rest is history. Fun fact, in the late 90's, Intel was the biggest manufacturer of ARM chips. I was there at the time, and I wrote lots of software to aid in their design. What happened to Intel was twofold: The first problem was that Robert Noyce, Andy Grove, And Gordon Moore died. Each one was a once-in-century intellect, and it took Intel a while t…

It seems that what happened to Intel was a lot worse than just missing Andy Grove's paranoia...

- They missed the mobile market

- They missed the gaming market

- They missed the AI/ML market

- They got multiple generations behind TSMC and Samsung in the fab business

- They lost a whole bunch of market share to AMD, including datacenter

The NY Times article is paywalled, so I can't read it, but I have to wonder what kind of fabs they are meant to be building for our (taxpayers) $8.5B ? I wouldn't have any faith in them building a SOTA fab at this point.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#309

Post by faktory »

kurthr wrote: post #260
faktory wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you I would say that supply chain is upstream of chip-production. The mining industry needed those money not Intel. It's the mining industry that's been neglected the last 20 years or so. It will take at least 10 years to get anything resembling chinese supply chain in place.

The chip supply chain is a lot shorter and more concentrated than the mining supply chain. If you're thinking of "rare earth" metals in particular, it's probably better to focus on the refining rather than digging out of the ground. Between South America, West Africa, and Australia there are lots of mines for most of the metals, but only refining in China (because it has been highly subsidized by both monetary and re…

We HAVE have to focus on the rare earth part or you are basically just giving China the whole thing as they control more then 90% of refinement (and almost all of mining)

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#310

Post by yard2010 »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #267
dietmtnview wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US citizen, it's pretty wild to live through. Socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the rest of us.

Unfortunately no, it's socialism for us too - just the wrong end of it. The government and their friends are the socialism winners, the rest of us are the socialism losers. But we do it to ourselves at the ballot box every time, and very reliably.

I don't know what the heck you are talking about. Socialism is not the kind of bs like capitalism or communism, it has no winners nor losers everyone is in the same boat.

Anything else is just some crooked politicians, could be billionaires but don't have to, getting more rich and powerful and say whatever they have to say to keep it this way.

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