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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#451

Post by maattdd »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #384
s_dev wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France already has some of the most densely populated cities in the world, Paris is #32. French cities feel less congested than the likes of US cities because it has better cycling infrastructure and public transport options. High population density is not a cure for the bias car infrastructure imposes on a city. So your recipe will need to take more in to account than just density. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List…

How does that linked Wikipedia page not contain any cities in China, which in my experience are more dense than just about anywhere else in the world?

What is your experience ? China cities are noticeably less dense than other cities in Asia (Manilla, Delhi..) or even Paris

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#452

Post by bedobi »

verisimi wrote: post #448
bedobi wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, make sure you move out of the city and go run hiding in the countryside somewhere if you stay in the city, the globalists WILL come for you, they WILL put you in 15 minute cities where everything you need is easily available within walking, bicycling or high quality transit distance (oh no!)

Lol. I'm not worried. I just it's funny think it's funny how people live to line up on the side of the unelected global governance system and think that voting matters and believe everything they were taught in school/on TV etc. "I'm choosing to give up my car, and you will choose that too!"

yeah, the default mode of human transportation is to drive a single occupancy private automobile, for every trip, everywhere, including in dense urban environments, and anyone who thinks otherwise is brainwashed by the globalists

if you prefer walking, riding a bike or transit you're so brainwashed! wake up and listen to the truth the automobile and fossil fuel industries are trying to get out there!

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#453

Post by testingParisGPE »

intalentive wrote: post #290
foldr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just don't like cities. Google pretty much any major Western city and you can find comments complaining that it's dirty, riddled with crime and has too many immigrants. Paris is a real place, not a theme park.

Western cities weren't always like this. They don't have to be like this.

Encampments have an big and long history in Paris even after the 2nd world war... It's not great, just people looking for a better place to live and survive.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#454

Post by digging »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #446
digging wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically all those interactions breach the social contract and could be acted upon by making complaints. However, someone loudly driving a multi-ton car down your road is always "okay". Also... I live in a low-density urban neighborhood currently and it's the loudest place I've ever lived. Mostly it's road noise, but also one of my neighbors parties 12+ hours every weekend playing music very loudly. Some people…

> However, someone loudly driving a multi-ton car down your road is always "okay". Cars with fart pipes installed are the same kind of violation. Modern cars with functioning mufflers or electric powertrains... aren't actually that loud.

> Modern cars with functioning mufflers or electric powertrains... aren't actually that loud.

Until their tires hit asphalt. Cars have to go very slowly for the engine to be louder than the tires, and that noise is a function of weight, and electric cars are heavier than equivalent ICE cars.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#455

Post by testingParisGPE »

bombcar wrote: post #201
jacktribe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised, to me it always looks & feels very different than most other Western cities, in part due to low-rise buildings and almost exclusively independently operated restaurants and shops. Most other large European cities allowed for high rises and chain coffee shops & restaurants, to the point where they've started to become indistinguishable from one another.

Paris has the CBD called La Défense which looked like most cities to me. Apparently tourists and residents alike hate it. The rest of Paris is pretty "European city" and maybe I'm not tuned into the differences, but it seemed quite like Munich, Rome, or Barcelona except for the language, etc.

For me the size of the core of Paris what make it different. It's still comparatively small, but you can walk for hours through streets with shops and restaurants. In other European cities I feel like I hit much faster the suburbs.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#456

Post by digging »

its_ethan wrote: post #376
digging wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a line somewhere where "giving poor people comfort" goes from providing good and useful social services to essentially a bribe. I'm not sure I agree. Like giving out literal tons of candy and soda would be a political bribe but I wouldn't count it as "comfort"; it's poison. If you do think it's in the same category, I guess that would be my line - the aid should not be obviously harmful. > you open the door…

You are free to not agree that giving housing subsidies is not crossing the line into bribe territory. I would say it's important for you to understand that for many people, there is a line. Your example of unlimited candy and soda as being a bribe is a bit odd, but also seems demonstrative to me that your thinking on this is further to an extreme than you might realize. And yes - this is true of everything the gover…

I'm not pretending people don't have their own lines, but I think they're fundamentally wrong to say the line exists within the space of "doing unequivocally good things for poor people [which admittedly may have negative downstream effects, as do all actions]"

> That's why it's an important thing to consider when the government promises to do something or provide a service. It can go away at any time, and people who became reliant on it will suffer it's loss.

Sure, it's something to think about, but it's not a realistic impediment to enacting a good policy. If the worst thing you can say about a policy is that "it might end, and that would be bad" you should do that policy. Besides, government programs tend to get institutionalized and are often much harder to undo than to do.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#457

Post by hirsin »

hollerith wrote: post #276
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people suggest that we reduce the number of cars driven, they are generally not talking about reducing commercial delivery vehicles [1]. Obviously our civilization depends on moving essential stuff around, and we need to do continue doing that, albeit with a electrified fleet of trucks/vans. The problem is with private cars, electric or internal combustion. [1] Excluding Uber style car-based food delivery servic…

OK, but some people here are asserting that the more urban density, the better, and neglecting to consider that if the density gets high enough, the commercial delivery vehicles are stuck in traffic most of the time or the residents of the city refrain from buying things that would enhance their lives if it weren't so expensive or tedious to move things around the city.

Which is why if you've ever lived far outside the city, you're tired of people from the city coming out to visit you to buy all the stuff they can't get in the city.

Oh, no, it's the other way round, mostly. It's easier to deliver a quantity and variety of goods to a dense area than the sticks. Which is why "go shopping" is a suggestion for people going to NYC, not Tucson.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#458

Post by bluefirebrand »

pjc50 wrote: post #410
bluefirebrand wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to lean lefty, but this scheme makes me understand why libertarians want less government How much my home is worth should not be capped by whatever government thinks. That's bs If government is counter offering all of my neighbors and they are accepting it, then I am screwed. I either accept the government counter offer or I go to tribunal who will cite all of the government's recent purchases from my neighbor…

You've misunderstood. You can choose what your sale price is. You may or may not clear the market (find a buyer) at that price. But, if you do, you may have to sell to the government. You choose the price but not the buyer. Paris property remains extremely expensive.

Based on the parent comment, I don't think I've misunderstood

"if your property is eligible for preemption, you have to declare that you intend to sell (at the price you wish) to the city, which can then tell you that [list of options here]"

It seemed like the city has right of first refusal. If they make a counter offer you are then either obligated to accept their offer, or go to tribunal, or not sell

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#459

Post by alexb_ »

mumblemumble wrote: post #33

My understanding is that excise taxation is generally agreed upon as the preferred method for governments to manipulate the market, both because it incurs fewer deadweight losses and because it tends to actually work better. So, what if we get rid of all these complicated rent control and rent freezes and affordable housing schemes, and instead just implement a rent tax, to be paid by the landlord, and make it progre…

You've re-invented Land Value Tax, which absolutely 100% should be everywhere.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#460

Post by Amezarak »

detourdog wrote: post #409
Amezarak wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 5% of households in Austria have air conditioning, vs 93% in Mississippi. Granted it gets hot and humid in Mississippi, but the average summer highs in Austria is a sometimes-muggy ~27C and it will probably get worse with climate change - heat waves up to 40C have already happened. I'll take the AC and the other conveniences the Americans have, though it would be nice to have the social atmosphere Austria h…

I would rather compare education and healthcares since I value those more than A/C.

This is one of those things that are harder to compare. Mississippi, like all of the US, has free public K12 education. The public university system also extends automatic full scholarships for academically qualified (and the qualification is not that high) students, and also admits basically anyone else who is able to pay, though without academic qualifications they will have to take advantage of Pell Grants (free money but not much) and federal student loans. Of course, you could argue about the results of the system, and admitting students who are not going to succeed in college and thereby saddling them with debt in exchange for nothing is a failing of the US system.

For health care, there are many publicly owned hospital systems in Mississippi, and of course Medicare is available for everyone 65+. Mississippi is not a Medicaid expansion state, so while Medicaid (free health care) is available for children, pregnant women, and the disabled, there is a coverage gap between that and qualifying for the ACA subsidies for health insurance (aka "Obamacare") which is sort of similar to the German system if you wave your hands; I think Austria has something similar, but I'm not familiar, but obviously the coverage is broader.

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