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Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

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Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#181

Post by happytiger »

simonh wrote: post #177
happytiger wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not a study. It’s a bunch of postulation and no data or experiment and based entirely on conjecture.

As is the idea that fire enabled us to boost our nutrition enabling brain growth. I have no problem with the paper in Nature, and no problem with PBN promoting it. I think they’re overreaching saying it was fermentation not fire. It may well have been both. Fire 2m years ago and fermentation more recently once we had containers to ferment things in.

Well I think it’s awesome to have the discussion and I certainly think the idea has merit… I just don’t think postulations should have the same weight as substantive research no matter how prestigious the journey it gets published in.

That’s really the core of my point.

You could very well be right on fire / ferment and whatnot. We have so very little substantive paleontological information to go off of.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#182

Post by ametrau »

hetspookjee wrote: post #35
lavos83 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands it's called water and kefir. Good stuff indeed, especially during summer and basically free at the cost tapwater. No plastic packaging either! Those hipster might actually be onto something ;)

Kombucha is another one.

Kombucha is a con.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#183

Post by wyre »

happytiger wrote: post #176
neuronic wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you calling them out for? A bias against torture and violent industrialized murder of sentient life?

No. As you obviously know by the phrasing of your question, the issue is that the vegan community has a particular history of agenda over science, and the concern is that any group that starts with a conclusion will build research to support their agenda rather than create objective evidence.

Agenda over science? What? It isn’t anti-science to be against eating meat because of its role in climate change. To think otherwise would be anti-science.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#184

Post by wyre »

DarkNova6 wrote: post #162
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is more to eating meat than supporting industrial "murder". 99% of the meat grown in America comes from factory foods. Despite this, every time the horrible treatment of animals is brought up online all of a sudden everyone is getting their meat from farms where the cows get a message twice a day. Statistically, there isn't much more. I still eat meat, very little these days, but lets be honest about it. Your…

I don't reside in the US, but I highly doubt it is 99%. There are always ways of getting organic or poultry food. At the very least in the EU there is no shortage of it and the legal restrictions are strictly enforced. Anyway, you are doing yourself a favour not ingesting mass-production. There is a very very good reason virtually no country wants to import US-chicken.

Might not be literally 99% but it is close. You can’t find organic meat at restaurants and the price of organic meat at the grocery reserves it for special occasions or for people with enough disposable income (1%) to afford it.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#185

Post by ianburrell »

bongodongobob wrote: post #159
AYBABTME wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By poisoned I mean food poisoning. Not sure what happened in the batch I made but drinking the brew gave me cold sweats and fever for two days and I emptied my bowels multiple times. So I stopped there. I still love the flavor, and I love most fermented food.

I would bet money it was something else. Fermentation usually does a good job of keeping bad fungi out. If you were careful with sanitation, it was something else like bad leftovers or something. Also, food poisoning usually takes > 24-48 hours to kick in. So if you drank it and got sick that day, it was something you ate the day or two before.

"If you were careful with sanitation" is probably the important caveat. But have to keep in mind the potential danger when mess up making food. It is possible that kombucha is easier to mess up than most fermented food or cooking in general. I know beer making is very forgiving of sanitation, and isn't dangerous if mess up.

The speed of food poisoning can be hours for some pathogens. It depends on the pathogen and the amount, and if the body detects the bad food and expels it quickly.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#186

Post by crubier »

tomek_ycomb wrote: post #122
crubier wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you learn where the enzymes come from

No, kvass and other 'fizzy drinks' are not kombucha They get their fermentation from the air, ferment much lower, and do not rely on the skoby to keep it all working. On some level there is similarities, but its not the same

It's still "shroom in a jar". Kvass is made with yeast, which are fungi.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#187

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

LeonB wrote: post #109
giantg2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, but knowing how to safely ferment foods would seem indicate that one has an advanced brain. Are there any examples of other primates fermenting thier food (lacto, not alcohol - alcohol shrinks brains)?

Nature causes various food sources to ferment which is exploited by many animals.

Don't know why you were downvoted. We used to have a horse that would wait until the fallen apples were fermented, and then eat them to get drunk.

At least, that's the human explanation. It's more likely that she just preferred the taste of fermented apples and getting drunk was just a pleasant side effect.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#188

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #156
depressedpanda wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, meat being the driver is the more common (and simpler) explanation for our smaller intestines and larger brains. I guess plantbasednews.org just accidentally left this alternative explanation out. That said, fermented foods could very well have played a part in it.

Yes. Could be both. The problem is the simpler, 'meat' based answer, leads people to say "Brains grew big because eating meat, I think I'm going to pull up to the table and down a few pounds of ribs and wash it down with a nice brisket".

That's my excuse :-)

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#189

Post by RamblingCTO »

AYBABTME wrote: post #151
RamblingCTO wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate, what happened and how did you notice? I also do Kombucha weekly.

By poisoned I mean food poisoning. Not sure what happened in the batch I made but drinking the brew gave me cold sweats and fever for two days and I emptied my bowels multiple times. So I stopped there. I still love the flavor, and I love most fermented food.

Oh okay got it, thanks! I also get that quite a few times, but I'm certain it's more food-related, as on those days I didn't drink the booch. But now I know what to look out for, thanks!

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#190

Post by fuzzfactor »

Tade0 wrote: post #104

> "Reduced gut sizes could only evolve if our ancestors were able to exploit a more nutrient-dense and easily digestible food source,” I've been eating more fermented, marinated and pickled stuff lately and while it's nutritious, it's not very calorie-dense - hard to imagine something like this supplying enough energy to power a large brain.

>it's not very calorie-dense

>Reduced gut sizes could only evolve

Well maybe with a less calorie-dense diet the reduced gut sizes would make it easier to fit into the slimmer-fitting jeans and shirts ;)

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