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Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

nytimes.com

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Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#131

Post by pavon »

no_wizard wrote: post #106

Wouldn't GlobalFoundries (HQ in New York and supposedly on the "Trusted Foundry" list) have made more sense, since they fabricate chips for multiple different companies, where as Intel only makes them for Intel? Boosts a competitor, opens up fab capacity for all and moves the needle on the intentions behind the CHIPS act, all at once.

GlobalFoudaries is receiving $1.5B from the CHIPS act. While it might have made sense to try to help them catch up to the competition a decade ago, today we just want to have any domestic capability comparable to TSMC in case China decides to invade Taiwan. Intel and TSMC will be able to get there much more quickly than GlobalFoundaries can. Furthermore, Intel is opening up their Fab to outside customers.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#132

Post by rhelz »

WRT to lack of a skilled workforce, here is an interesting anecdote. I remember back in the late 90's, Intel had to fire most line workers in their FABS, and hire people with Ph.D.'s in solid-state physics.

I actually knew one of these people who were fired: She was our housecleaner. And--like the supper-smart garbage man of the Dilbert Cartoons, she was very smart. Smarter than me. I know because she helped me solve some problems I couldn't solve on my own.

Why was she cleaning houses? Tragic story. No doubt she could have gotten a Ph.D., but she was older, had some health problems which wouldn't let her work 60-80 hours a week. And she was black, perhaps discrimination was a factor too.

I'd hate to even think of how smart you have to be to work in FABs today, but let me tell you, not even $8.5 billion is going to create more of these people. Best you can hope for is you can pay them enough to get them to work for you.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#133

Post by spaniard89277 »

icyfox wrote: post #117
hollywood_court wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine we’d have that skilled workforce if companies paid enough. I’m a former construction contractor who reinvented myself as a software developer. Each time I run into one of my former peers in the construction industry I hear the same complaints from them. “We can’t hire any good help.” Yet they are still paying the same non living wages that they have for 30 years.

To be clear, I'm not saying we can't have this skilled workforce. Merely that we don't have it today. So the pipeline to employ Americans for these jobs is going to require increasing the funnel of people who learn the skills, become junior engineers, learn more on the job, then become senior engineers. That's a long pipeline to beef up the numbers.

I'm waiting for those job postings of "Junior Engineer with 5 years of experience minimum" in companies with zero pipeline of in-house training.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#135

Post by solumunus »

no_wizard wrote: post #106

Wouldn't GlobalFoundries (HQ in New York and supposedly on the "Trusted Foundry" list) have made more sense, since they fabricate chips for multiple different companies, where as Intel only makes them for Intel? Boosts a competitor, opens up fab capacity for all and moves the needle on the intentions behind the CHIPS act, all at once.

I’ve not been keeping up with the news but certainly within the last few months it’s been said they’re also getting money.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#136

Post by pkulak »

FredPret wrote: post #123

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

Well, you can chase short term profit and send your designs off to TSMC, or you can own your own foundry. This is exactly why it's in the interest of the US government to ensure that Intel doesn't totally abandon US manufacturing just like AMD did years ago.

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#137

Post by asabjorn »

hollywood_court wrote: post #108
icyfox wrote: post #79

Right now one of the biggest blockers in on-shoring semiconductor fab at any kind of reasonable price-point and timescale is the lack of a skilled workforce. This legislation has dual objectives: train new people to get into sophisticated manufacturing AND to build out the actual infrastructure itself. That almost guarantees it won't be the most efficient way to actually get these chips on American soil. Whether we l…

I imagine we’d have that skilled workforce if companies paid enough. I’m a former construction contractor who reinvented myself as a software developer. Each time I run into one of my former peers in the construction industry I hear the same complaints from them. “We can’t hire any good help.” Yet they are still paying the same non living wages that they have for 30 years.

[flagged]

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#138

Post by jjtheblunt »

Title on commerce.gov isn't quite what the first sentence says, which is they announced a _proposal_, not a done deal.

U.S. Department of Commerce Proposes up to $8.5 Billion in Potential Direct Funding for Intel Under President Biden’s Investing in America Agenda to Support Multiple Projects in Arizona, New Mexico, Ohio, and Oregon

Re: Intel to Receive $8.5B in Grants to Build Chip Plants

#140

Post by FredPret »

pkulak wrote: post #136
FredPret wrote: post #123

We're living through the silicon age and Intel has made a total dog's breakfast of it. Stagnant revenues, falling profits. Both should have been growing geometrically. Just compare these companies: https://valustox.com/INTC https://valustox.com/AMD https://valustox.com/AVGO https://valustox.com/AMAT Even Qualcomm has seen good growth: https://valustox.com/QCOM This is how it's done: https://valustox.com/NVDA EDIT the…

Well, you can chase short term profit and send your designs off to TSMC, or you can own your own foundry. This is exactly why it's in the interest of the US government to ensure that Intel doesn't totally abandon US manufacturing just like AMD did years ago.

Not saying INTC isn't valuable - just saying they seem to have missed the boat in a big way and changes are in order.

The US does of course need on-shore chip foundries for strategic reasons.

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