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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#161

Post by 082349872349872 »

rsynnott wrote: post #125
082349872349872 wrote: post #98

Before the invention of the elevator, buildings were more naturally mixed-use: shops (and stables?) on the ground floor, posh tenants on the first, all the way up to artists and baristas in their garrets under the roof. By democratising travel within a building, ironically the elevator made it possible to have neighbourhoods for which service workers had to commute primarily from the outside along the x and y axes, n…

> all the way up to artists and baristas in their garrets under the roof. I don't think there was any significant crossover between lifts not existing and _baristas_ existing. For a start, lifts predate proper espresso machines.

Good point; please substitute the appropriate word for the service worker who doles out glasses of wine from behind a zinc counter. (or did zinc also postdate lifts?)

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#162

Post by mytailorisrich »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #153
mytailorisrich wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Paris is making investments that will enable it to substantially grow its tax base Obviously, this is not what they are doing, debts growing with quite high tax rises at the same time ("taxe fonciere" [property tax] doubled last year). Paris is often depiected as a great model, especially by liberal foreign media, but the reality is rather different, and I believe that the Mayor's approval rating is currently ab…

Not at all obvious. What is obvious is that returns on many investments, such as vastly improving housing and transportation for city residents, have multi-year lags. Like, obviously when you just spent billions on improving your RER, properly redesigning your streets to not be deadly by design anymore, and buying up housing, you'll be in the read that fiscal year. >"taxe fonciere" [property tax] doubled last year My…

Well, you can insist on looking at things through rose-tinted glasses or notpicking. But the facts I highlighted are inescapable...

And I won't even get into how ghastly areas around the Eiffel Tower (for instance) have become with crime, beggars, etc everywhere.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#163

Post by olivierduval »

The article is quite... disappointing for a french Parisian.

Let's make things clear: so called "mixed society" is actually a mix of "friends of the Mayor and allies" and poor-enough people that will vote for the so-called socialist Mayor. It's not about having a philosophical or idealogical view of society, only a practical view of election (a kind of "gerrymanding" if this concept is more understandable for US).

There has been frequent scandals with ministers still using "low income" housing for themselves or families. The article starts with the interview of some Ms Vallery-Radot, and that uncommon name prompted me to look on internet and wonder if she is related to the https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallery-Radot which was until the 2000 ... State Advisor.

So please... do not think that Paris is some kind of wonderful place where intelligent and humanistic leaders are working for the good of the french society as an example to the world. It's just usual political shady business, nepotism (and you'll see by yourself that the results will be bad during the Olympics for example)

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#164

Post by bluefirebrand »

rsynnott wrote: post #113
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> build taller As someone who lives in an area with plenty of high-density residential buildings, I can attest that this is a perfect recipe for creating congested cities with such intense light and noise pollution.

It can certainly cause light issues, but I'm not sure why it would cause _congestion_?

More people in a smaller area?

Congestion doesn't just refer to car traffic

Edit: think about crowded grocery stores and restaurants. Think community spaces like parks and libraries being packed all the time. Think about never being able to stop and get a coffee without waiting in a long line. Congestion

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#165

Post by rcpt »

bragr wrote: post #136
rsynnott wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can certainly cause light issues, but I'm not sure why it would cause _congestion_?

Ultimately you have more people coming and going from each building, which means more people on the streets, and more demand for all utilities and public services. Building up doesn't build out those other things. That's why you have things like Air Rights in NYC to limit building.

People aren't very noisy. Cars are

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#166

Post by zozbot234 »

patwolf wrote: post #14

> Every Thursday, Jacques Baudrier, the Paris city councilor in charge of housing, scrolls through the list of properties being exchanged by sellers and buyers on the private market. With some exceptions, the city has the legal right to pre-empt the sale of a building, buy the property and convert it to public housing. What are the mechanics of how this works? If I agree to buy a property for a million dollars, does…

It's essentially the same as a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_first_refusal

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#167

Post by mp05 »

lucaspfeifer wrote: post #104
thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

What do you find 'loaded' about the phrase 'mixed society'? It is more descriptive than the meaningless phrase in the original headline: "How Does Paris Stay Paris?".

Can't help but be reminded of this classic:

THE VILLAS AT KENNYS HOUSE

The most sought after address in all of South park for only the very privileged few. You can take in the views from the deck spa and enjoy the mixed Sodosopa culture. Also, featuring a private fitness center, clubhouse and so much more. Welcome home.

https://southpark.cc.com/w/index.php/The_Villas_at_Kennys_Ho...

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#168

Post by _3u10 »

mumblemumble wrote: post #33

My understanding is that excise taxation is generally agreed upon as the preferred method for governments to manipulate the market, both because it incurs fewer deadweight losses and because it tends to actually work better. So, what if we get rid of all these complicated rent control and rent freezes and affordable housing schemes, and instead just implement a rent tax, to be paid by the landlord, and make it progre…

Most demand for houses is from people. Most price increases are due to a lack of supply that exceeds population growth. Most lack of supply is caused by it being illegal to build higher / more dense, and a variety of other rules and regulations.

Landlords are for the most part capitalizing on these broader market / regulatory trends.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#169

Post by smeej »

> The program has allowed Mr. Chaillou and his wife to raise their two boys in the city. But he knows that the future of social housing will always face at least one big challenge: “The problem is that once you get in, you never want to leave.”

I think this is the reason so many in the U.S. are skeptical of/resistant to such plans. Why work your butt off for 10 years to get to a place where you can afford a nice dwelling if you can also wait 10 years, working but not pushing yourself, and someone else will pay for it for you? And then once you have it, there's even less incentive to try to "move up" from there, because there's now a cliff in front of you. You have to make the whole jump in one go, because if you only take incremental steps, you lose eligibility for your subsidies.

American culture doesn't like to think about how much of "success" is down to luck. As often as possible, we want to think it's earned. The idea of trying to make up for some of the luck factor by taking some from those with more and giving it to those with less is almost instinctively repugnant, even if it might lead to higher quality of life for everyone involved.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#170

Post by MeImCounting »

justin66 wrote: post #89
afpx wrote: post #3

Is Paris considered a great place to live? I've been there a couple times in the last few years, and it just seemed like every other big western city. (except for the police walking around with assault weapons.)

> except for the police walking around with assault weapons So you've never been to North America. Where is it you're comparing Paris to, such that it seems like every other big western city?

Having lived in america my whole life and been to many different major cities I can say that the police keep their long guns in the car generally.
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