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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#141

Post by krona »

TimPC wrote: post #65
krona wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A city NEEDS to have people of all ages, backgrounds, income levels etc in it to not die. Correct. Therefore, subsidized housing is good and more of it is better? No, it does not follow. What you say is correct, to a degree. Beyond that, it is incorrect. There are no solutions, only trade-offs.

If you agree the city dies without people of all ages backgrounds and income levels what is your alternative proposal to subsidized housing. It's just a fact that some income levels are being priced out of the city and certain occupations may become entirely unavailable without some mechanism of solving that gap.

Either you willingly misunderstood my comment, or you are so absolutist in your thinking that you're incapable of understanding the concept of a limiting principle in social policy.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#142

Post by Slava_Propanei »

bedobi wrote: post #10
bko wrote: post #4

The problem with charging below market prices for anything is that it necessarily leads to a mismatch of supply and demand. So the question is how do you allocate that supply? One way is to have hidden costs. This could range from straight up bribes, to paid consultants to fill out a lot of forms or talk to the right people, to just knowing someone Another way is a lottery which benefits a tiny percentage of people.…

I used to think like you but no longer do. A city NEEDS to have people of all ages, backgrounds, income levels etc in it to not die. Yes those people who live in that most central subsidized housing are in some ways winning a lottery ticket, and the real policy is to build a lot more housing as close to the city as possible. But Paris are doing that! AND adding new public transit etc etc. This multifaceted approach i…

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#143

Post by thisislife2 »

thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

Could be due to HN title's limit? For example, I tried to submit a story with this title - Google blocks man’s email account over nude childhood photo; Gujarat HC issues notice to firm - but it exceeds HN's title word limit. So I had to edit it to - Google blocks email account over nude toddler photo; Court issues notice to firm ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39756841 ) to fit it within the word limit. Now, I get the use of "toddler" instead of "childhood" in the title does cause a slight loss of context, but it's the closest match I could think of to retain most of the headline as HN guidelines demand. So the "editorialising" could just be as simple as us trying to be "editors" on HN to meet its guidelines, rather than politics. (Also, I didn't find the term offensive and feel the submitted title is much better than the actual title on the article).

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#144

Post by lode »

thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

It looks like the New York Times changed it. The title in the tag is the same as this post, in the article header they changed it.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#145

Post by Slava_Propanei »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #82
bboygravity wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everybody need to concentrate in huge cities? If Romans where able to relatively evenly spread their towns and population all over the place in the analogue age, then why aren't we able to do so in the digital age?

Because ~90% of the population was farming

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#146

Post by ttymck »

bboygravity wrote: post #52
bedobi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think like you but no longer do. A city NEEDS to have people of all ages, backgrounds, income levels etc in it to not die. Yes those people who live in that most central subsidized housing are in some ways winning a lottery ticket, and the real policy is to build a lot more housing as close to the city as possible. But Paris are doing that! AND adding new public transit etc etc. This multifaceted approach i…

Why does everybody need to concentrate in huge cities? If Romans where able to relatively evenly spread their towns and population all over the place in the analogue age, then why aren't we able to do so in the digital age?

Did Romans enjoy walking to the coffee shop or the grocery store?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#147

Post by foldr »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #138
foldr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't those all have a reputation of being rather dull and culturally insignificant in comparison to Paris?

Are you suggesting there's a strong correlation between the number of low-salary workers living in the city and the presence of the Louvre or the Centre Pompidou?

Are you suggesting that nothing of cultural significance has happened in Paris since the Louvre opened as a museum in 1793? Or that Paris's culture can be reduced to a set of buildings?

Also, mixed income housing in Paris has a long history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa...

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#148

Post by willyt »

bertjk wrote: post #93
baud147258 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the mechanics of how this works? If I agree to buy a property for a million dollars, does the city get a chance to match that price? there's a French wiki page on this: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_pr%C3%A9emption_urbai... But basically, yes, the city has 2 months to match the price. The city can also offer a lower price, which can be refused (so no sale at all) or can be argued in front of a spe…

So does this mean that every sale of any building can take at least two months?

2 months would be an ultra fast completion in the UK. I think when I bought my house it took 3 months, when I bought some land, cash purchase, it took more like 6 months.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#149

Post by conradfr »

webkike wrote: post #127
hokkos wrote: post #110

The reality of this housing policies is that it is currently bankrupting the city of Paris with a skyrocketing debt and growing local taxes. They spent enormous sum of money to buy old buildings at the historical peak of their price, buildings ill-fitted to house poor wide families and sometimes in very expansive neighborhood where they have to travel far to get access to cheaper groceries. Also the delta between the…

Can you provide some sources on the Paris city’s budget and debt? I couldn’t find anything on it. France’s debt looks roughly linear, which I imagine would support Paris a lot

https://cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/lep...

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#150

Post by brainwad »

lucaspfeifer wrote: post #104
thuuuomas wrote: post #94

Why was this headline changed in such an editorializing way? “Mixed society” is a loaded term not present in the original headline.

What do you find 'loaded' about the phrase 'mixed society'? It is more descriptive than the meaningless phrase in the original headline: "How Does Paris Stay Paris?".

Possibly because it presumes Paris is 'mixed', but actually the city of Paris is notably better off than the surrounding suburbs, especially the ones on the north/east. This has some good maps: https://medium.com/perspective-critique/the-geography-of-ine...
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