Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#131

Post by walthamstow » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 2:57 PM UTC

rafaelero wrote: post #56

bedobi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think like you but no longer do. A city NEEDS to have people of all ages, backgrounds, income levels etc in it to not die. Yes those people who live in that most central subsidized housing are in some ways winning a lottery ticket, and the real policy is to build a lot more housing as close to the city as possible. But Paris are doing that! AND adding new public transit etc etc. This multifaceted approach i…

What do you mean cities need it not to die? Would you say Monaco is dead? What about Zurich? Oslo?

Monaco, absolutely yes, because most of the workers commute from France, they don't live in Monaco.

Zurich and Oslo, I don't see the connection, they both have workers of all kinds, old and young people. They're organic and alive cities.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#132

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 2:58 PM UTC

Editorialized title. Just seems like virtue signaling to me. Unless anyone has a reason that it isn’t?

I was recently in Paris, the comments here are a touch different in tone than the Parisians I talked to.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#133

Post by UncleEntity » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 2:58 PM UTC

TimPC wrote: post #81

bko wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not Paris but NYC: > For many New Yorkers, the most desirable jackpot is not the New York Lotto, but to be selected in the city’s extraordinarily competitive affordable-housing lottery. Tens of thousands of people, and sometimes many more, vie for the handful of units available at a time. Since 2013, there have been more than 25 million applications submitted for roughly 40,000 units. Central planning has been tried…

Yes if you support 40,000 units and your demand is much higher you're going to have problems. That tells you the system is underfunded. Central planning hasn't universally failed in every aspect and every application. Central planning tends to do poorly at solving problems that market mechanisms solve effectively, but it's sometimes useful at solving problems that market mechanisms solve poorly. Centrally planned uni…

Calling the US health care system free market is quite the big stretch.

I can honestly not come up with another industry that is subject to higher regulatory burdens. Maybe nuclear power?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#134

Post by kome » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 2:58 PM UTC

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #5

"A city, if it’s only made up of poor people, is a disaster," said Mr. Apparu, who now works for a property developer. "And if it’s only made up of rich people, it’s not much better." From a human+social position, I strongly agree with this. The value of social benevolence isn't limited to the direct beneficiaries and has positive impacts beyond the economics.

it's not benevolence, it also makes economic sense. who does the menial job anyway? you should keep them close. if they will go to live far, their cost will increase, or their cost in time of traffic and pollution.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#135

Post by rsynnott » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 3:00 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #118

rsynnott wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can certainly cause light issues, but I'm not sure why it would cause _congestion_?

It causes congestion if the city refuses to invest in public transportation - which is more a problem in US cities - though some European cities could be behind on keeping up with changes to different degrees

Oh, right, I see, yeah. Would not generally be an issue in Paris, I would've thought, at least not towards the centre.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#136

Post by bragr » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 3:00 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #113

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> build taller As someone who lives in an area with plenty of high-density residential buildings, I can attest that this is a perfect recipe for creating congested cities with such intense light and noise pollution.

It can certainly cause light issues, but I'm not sure why it would cause _congestion_?

Ultimately you have more people coming and going from each building, which means more people on the streets, and more demand for all utilities and public services. Building up doesn't build out those other things. That's why you have things like Air Rights in NYC to limit building.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#137

Post by 6bb32646d83d » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 3:00 PM UTC

Unfortunately it means it's extremely hard to live in Paris if you're middle class.

If you're upper middle class/rich, you can rent/buy. If you're poor, you get a chance to get public housing. If you're middle class, too bad for you.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#138

Post by NovemberWhiskey » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 3:01 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #129

rafaelero wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean cities need it not to die? Would you say Monaco is dead? What about Zurich? Oslo?

Don't those all have a reputation of being rather dull and culturally insignificant in comparison to Paris?

Are you suggesting there's a strong correlation between the number of low-salary workers living in the city and the presence of the Louvre or the Centre Pompidou?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#139

Post by foldr » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

seper8 wrote: post #19

[flagged]

Some people just don't like cities. Google pretty much any major Western city and you can find comments complaining that it's dirty, riddled with crime and has too many immigrants. Paris is a real place, not a theme park.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#140

Post by orwin » Wed, Mar 20, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

rafaelero wrote: post #56

bedobi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think like you but no longer do. A city NEEDS to have people of all ages, backgrounds, income levels etc in it to not die. Yes those people who live in that most central subsidized housing are in some ways winning a lottery ticket, and the real policy is to build a lot more housing as close to the city as possible. But Paris are doing that! AND adding new public transit etc etc. This multifaceted approach i…

What do you mean cities need it not to die? Would you say Monaco is dead? What about Zurich? Oslo?

Isn't it practically the same in Oslo, with rent control?

And I don't know about Zurich, but Monaco is clearly dying. Luckily they can build on the sea (and do so), but it suffered greatly from covid and Russia invasion of Ukraine, as without the Russian mob, a lot of 'amenities' aren't as available, which slow the 35yo+ fratboy life.