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First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

overkill.wtf

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Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#61

Post by caminante »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #53
caminante wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not making sense. These anon devs can still have socials. Their resume is public, and you can reach them without revealing their identity.

This is a little too risky since it could wind up with someone revealing their identity inadvertently or otherwise. If you truly want to be anonymous you should not be leaving so many breadcrumbs. All it takes is for a former employer to have a security breach and someone to point out that they found your real identity.

You said "resume piece."

Now, you say any posting can reveal their identity and is too risky.

These are mutually exclusive.

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#62

Post by shadowgovt »

b3lvedere wrote: post #54
antiframe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that would be piracy. The Suyu team condemns that behavior. Edited: condones -> condemns

Must be nice for some people to legally hide behind words. "Yes, your honor. We did build this thing that some may define as a bomb capable of destroying the entire planet, but our intention was just to build a big power source. We are very much against illegal use."

I'm not sure we can draw a fair analogy between the nuclear arms race and software piracy. Not unless we're starting from a premise that every law is equally just and righteous.

Cui bono in Nintendo having the right to tell the world that nobody is allowed to build machines that interoperate with theirs, even after they've sold their machine?

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#63

Post by Zambyte »

arghwhat wrote: post #29
wiz21c wrote: post #24

If Nintendo sued Yuzu because they were indirectly causing damage, then I can sue car makers for making air polution.

You can, but to win ridiculous cases you need massively out-lawyer the defendant. It's a lot easier for a big company to out-lawyer a handful of individuals than the other way around.

Land of the Free

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#64

Post by klausa »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #51
klausa wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding was that they were offering a specially-patched version of Yuzu to their Patreon supporters, that included improvements for games that _weren't released yet_. *Making money* by helping people run Zelda _before it came out_ was begging for trouble. Nintendo's approach to fan projects and emulators is ridiculous, don't get me wrong — but Yuzu authors were definitely playing with fire and overstepping w…

This was a widely spread myth, now generally considered incorrect. Yuzu did not offer improvements before launch day. There were badly patched unofficial versions that were trying. Nintendo does allege though that Yuzu was doing research to develop the patches before launch day.

Thank you for the correction!

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#65

Post by junon »

tempoponet wrote: post #4
speps wrote: post #2

The key bit: > Unlike Yuzu, the Suyu team does things differently in regards to Nintendo Switch emulation than their predecessors. Whereas Yuzu only required prod.keys, Suyu will also require you to dump your title.keys and firmware from a hacked Switch to run games. The devs also clarified that they are doing this for nonprofit (there's no Patreon) and do not condone piracy. We'll see how long it lasts...

One argument I heard for the Yuzu settlement was to avoid discovery. There's speculation that Nintendo had the goods on them, and that discovery would expose them to more than the civil penalties they were facing. Nintendo has never been friendly to emulation, or most fan content in general, but there are protections for fair-use and this team appears to be building their work behind those, rather than playing fast a…

Notably, Japan has no fair use laws.

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#66

Post by gjsman-1000 »

testudovictoria wrote: post #56
tempoponet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One argument I heard for the Yuzu settlement was to avoid discovery. There's speculation that Nintendo had the goods on them, and that discovery would expose them to more than the civil penalties they were facing. Nintendo has never been friendly to emulation, or most fan content in general, but there are protections for fair-use and this team appears to be building their work behind those, rather than playing fast a…

There are fair-use protections, but it costs money to defend. Part of why so many Smash tournaments folded in 2022 was because of Nintendo telling people they weren't allowed to host tourneys using their IP. Granted I'm not a lawyer, but people gathering to play a multiplayer game and then streaming the matches doesn't inherently constitute any infringement on Nintendo's rights or ability to make money. Many TOs (tou…

Not really. Fair use does not really legally exist. It exists primarily as a defense after you’ve already been sued - which is also why there is no official codification of what fair use actually is.

Also, as Nintendo can argue, imagine this was a movie. Imagine it was a movie being shown on screen for two hours. That would be case closed. Now imagine it was a movie recutting competition. Again, case closed. So what makes a tourney special? In the eyes of the law, a judge might say, absolutely nothing.

You might argue, “well, there’s skill being applied, whereas a movie is passive.” No dice there - just because you put effort into your copyright violation is meaningless. You might argue a movie is a full work when a video game only displays a subset - but do you think you could publicly perform 30 minutes of The Lord of the Rings and be OK? Of course not.

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#67

Post by caminante »

antiframe wrote: post #44
caminante wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not making sense. These anon devs can still have socials. Their resume is public, and you can reach them without revealing their identity.

Do they expect a company to believe them when they say "Yes, that anonymous social profile is actually me, John Emu maker. Really." Then if they proove it, by logging in and posting a known sentinel for example, do they expect everyone on that interview loop to keep their secret? Companies generally don't take anonymous credentials.

You're arguing with the parent, not me.

"How does someone break the circularity of building a resume and staying anonymous for legal employment?"

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#68

Post by mrd3v0 »

testudovictoria wrote: post #56
tempoponet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One argument I heard for the Yuzu settlement was to avoid discovery. There's speculation that Nintendo had the goods on them, and that discovery would expose them to more than the civil penalties they were facing. Nintendo has never been friendly to emulation, or most fan content in general, but there are protections for fair-use and this team appears to be building their work behind those, rather than playing fast a…

There are fair-use protections, but it costs money to defend. Part of why so many Smash tournaments folded in 2022 was because of Nintendo telling people they weren't allowed to host tourneys using their IP. Granted I'm not a lawyer, but people gathering to play a multiplayer game and then streaming the matches doesn't inherently constitute any infringement on Nintendo's rights or ability to make money. Many TOs (tou…

> people gathering to play a multiplayer game and then streaming the matches doesn't inherently constitute any infringement on Nintendo's rights or ability to make money.

Esports and tourneys in general generate a decent amount of money, are recurring and control a decent chunk of the narrative around games affecting their marketing.

Not trying to defend Nintendo or any other company, but their objective as a profit-driven organisation is to generate maximum profits.

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#69

Post by 93po »

b3lvedere wrote: post #54
antiframe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that would be piracy. The Suyu team condemns that behavior. Edited: condones -> condemns

Must be nice for some people to legally hide behind words. "Yes, your honor. We did build this thing that some may define as a bomb capable of destroying the entire planet, but our intention was just to build a big power source. We are very much against illegal use."

If society wants to prosecute people for making emulators without any infringing content in them, then they need to make laws to make it illegal. You can't hold people accountable to laws that don't exist, especially when laws are amazingly over-reaching as it is

Re: First beta of Nintendo Switch emulator Suyu goes live

#70

Post by giancarlostoro »

caminante wrote: post #61
giancarlostoro wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a little too risky since it could wind up with someone revealing their identity inadvertently or otherwise. If you truly want to be anonymous you should not be leaving so many breadcrumbs. All it takes is for a former employer to have a security breach and someone to point out that they found your real identity.

You said "resume piece." Now, you say any posting can reveal their identity and is too risky. These are mutually exclusive.

If you're trying to be anonymous yes, if you're not, then it doesn't matter.

Sometimes the reverse engineering community leans somewhere between gray and blackhat. You may not want to expose your actual identity.

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