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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#91

Post by lou1306 »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #86
mebazaa wrote: post #34

As a Parisian, who is generally angry at the city’s housing policy (build taller!), I find the public housing of the past few years to be a great achievement. In general, public housing sits on the outer edges of Paris, but the city has been agressive in reconverting buildings in posher neighborhoods. It doesn’t really lead to reduced rent (because no additional supply), but it decreases social segregation. That alon…

Paris needs a new center. Like many other cities, build more places where people want to flock so you get pressure off the center. Most new developments are in dead areas because nobody wants to spend time surrounded by ugly, bland and functional architecture.

The problem is, when you are competing with the center of Paris, it is pretty hard to build a compelling alternative. Say what you will about the streets being loud, chaotic and dirty, the area between the II, III, V and VI arrondissements (Latin quarter, Pantheon, Beaubourg, Jardin du Luxembourg, Tuilleries, Notre Dame, Place des Vosges) is still just swell.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#92

Post by torus »

afpx wrote: post #54
wk_end wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hard for me to imagine. Where in Paris were you? Which big western cities specifically do you feel like it resembled?

Sorry my communication skills aren’t great. It was a genuine question. I spent a total of 14 days there, but I’m an adventurous walker and covered much of the city. My expectations were too high, probably. (Too high expectations lead to disappointment)

There's even a name for this specific case of disappointment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome

"the disorder is caused by positive representations of the city in popular culture, which leads to immense disappointment as the reality of experiencing the city is very different from expectations: tourists are confronted with an overcrowded and littered city ... and a less than welcoming attitude by French hospitality workers like shopkeepers, restaurant and hotel personnel without considering the higher safety risks to which tourists used to safer cities are suddenly exposed."

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#93

Post by bertjk »

baud147258 wrote: post #39
patwolf wrote: post #14

> Every Thursday, Jacques Baudrier, the Paris city councilor in charge of housing, scrolls through the list of properties being exchanged by sellers and buyers on the private market. With some exceptions, the city has the legal right to pre-empt the sale of a building, buy the property and convert it to public housing. What are the mechanics of how this works? If I agree to buy a property for a million dollars, does…

> What are the mechanics of how this works? If I agree to buy a property for a million dollars, does the city get a chance to match that price? there's a French wiki page on this: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_pr%C3%A9emption_urbai... But basically, yes, the city has 2 months to match the price. The city can also offer a lower price, which can be refused (so no sale at all) or can be argued in front of a spe…

So does this mean that every sale of any building can take at least two months?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#95

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

mebazaa wrote: post #34

As a Parisian, who is generally angry at the city’s housing policy (build taller!), I find the public housing of the past few years to be a great achievement. In general, public housing sits on the outer edges of Paris, but the city has been agressive in reconverting buildings in posher neighborhoods. It doesn’t really lead to reduced rent (because no additional supply), but it decreases social segregation. That alon…

Do you live in one of these places?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#96

Post by greyman »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #5

"A city, if it’s only made up of poor people, is a disaster," said Mr. Apparu, who now works for a property developer. "And if it’s only made up of rich people, it’s not much better." From a human+social position, I strongly agree with this. The value of social benevolence isn't limited to the direct beneficiaries and has positive impacts beyond the economics.

But that literally never happens, each city contains both rich and poor people.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#97

Post by Probiotic6081 »

yieldcrv wrote: post #84
mebazaa wrote: post #34

As a Parisian, who is generally angry at the city’s housing policy (build taller!), I find the public housing of the past few years to be a great achievement. In general, public housing sits on the outer edges of Paris, but the city has been agressive in reconverting buildings in posher neighborhoods. It doesn’t really lead to reduced rent (because no additional supply), but it decreases social segregation. That alon…

> but it decreases social segregation. That alone is critical to keep a city alive. I agree that is a net boon to society. I think the cross drift of ideas is a net positive, the human interaction can create more opportunities for those that have less, I don't think it reduces inequality meaningfully and I'm not suggesting that was a goal only that my prior statements might lead one to believe it does, but I've seen…

[dead]

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#98

Post by 082349872349872 »

Before the invention of the elevator, buildings were more naturally mixed-use: shops (and stables?) on the ground floor, posh tenants on the first, all the way up to artists and baristas in their garrets under the roof.

By democratising travel within a building, ironically the elevator made it possible to have neighbourhoods for which service workers had to commute primarily from the outside along the x and y axes, not merely within the neighbourhood along the z.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#99

Post by arethuza »

ecshafer wrote: post #24
bugglebeetle wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Vienna is one of the most beautiful, livable cities in the world, with its masses of public housing, while major U.S. cities have homelessness crises and TV shows about house flipping for profit. Perhaps we should stop debating things based on the hokum of Econ 101 textbooks and look at what in the real world has actually worked (e.g. abolishing most forms of zoning, massive investments in public housing, rob…

The US also has a per capita GDP 50% higher than Austria ($52,131 vs $76,399). At $52,131 a year per capita GDP, Austria would be neatly in second to last place as the poorest state in the Union, as it would beat Mississippi at $47,190 but be beaten by West Virginia at $53,852. So perhaps the US policy is doing something correctly.

I think that just goes to show how misleading GDP can be!

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#100

Post by mytailorisrich »

bedobi wrote: post #10
bko wrote: post #4

The problem with charging below market prices for anything is that it necessarily leads to a mismatch of supply and demand. So the question is how do you allocate that supply? One way is to have hidden costs. This could range from straight up bribes, to paid consultants to fill out a lot of forms or talk to the right people, to just knowing someone Another way is a lottery which benefits a tiny percentage of people.…

I used to think like you but no longer do. A city NEEDS to have people of all ages, backgrounds, income levels etc in it to not die. Yes those people who live in that most central subsidized housing are in some ways winning a lottery ticket, and the real policy is to build a lot more housing as close to the city as possible. But Paris are doing that! AND adding new public transit etc etc. This multifaceted approach i…

Subsidies always have a cost on public finances.

In Paris' case, the financial situation is bad and getting worse with a debt on track to reach EUR10 billion.

So it seems to me that Paris is borrowing like there is no tomorrow. This usually does not end well.

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