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Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

nytimes.com

41–50 of 662 posts

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#41
post #19

[flagged]

I wouldn't describe Paris as a super nice place by any means, more "gritty but cool," but the area near the Eiffel Tower is a tourist zone and always has been. Average Parisians rarely go there. I wouldn't call Times Square a nice place either.

Your comment would be more convincing if you said Le Marais, Belleville, or the 13th were getting bad.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Vienna is one of the most beautiful, livable cities in the world, with its masses of public housing, while major U.S. cities have homelessness crises and TV shows about house flipping for profit. Perhaps we should stop debating things based on the hokum of Econ 101 textbooks and look at what in the real world has actually worked (e.g. abolishing most forms of zoning, massive investments in public housing, rob…

The US also has a per capita GDP 50% higher than Austria ($52,131 vs $76,399). At $52,131 a year per capita GDP, Austria would be neatly in second to last place as the poorest state in the Union, as it would beat Mississippi at $47,190 but be beaten by West Virginia at $53,852. So perhaps the US policy is doing something correctly.

I look at the numbers and think they demonstrate how much more efficient Austria is compared to any US state. I would prefer living in Austria to Mississippi.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#43
post #14

> Every Thursday, Jacques Baudrier, the Paris city councilor in charge of housing, scrolls through the list of properties being exchanged by sellers and buyers on the private market. With some exceptions, the city has the legal right to pre-empt the sale of a building, buy the property and convert it to public housing. What are the mechanics of how this works? If I agree to buy a property for a million dollars, does…

No, pre-empt here means you don't have a word, the town (commune) has priority and you can't make an offer

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#44
post #14

> Every Thursday, Jacques Baudrier, the Paris city councilor in charge of housing, scrolls through the list of properties being exchanged by sellers and buyers on the private market. With some exceptions, the city has the legal right to pre-empt the sale of a building, buy the property and convert it to public housing. What are the mechanics of how this works? If I agree to buy a property for a million dollars, does…

Basically, if your property is eligible for preemption, you have to declare that you intend to sell (at the price you wish) to the city, which can then tell you that

- they don't intend to buy, in which case you can proceed with the sale

- they buy at the price you've set

- they make a counter-offer, which you have the right to refuse but then you also renounce to sell

If there's a dispute on the price (especially in the third case), a tribunal will decide the eventual price, "based on the recent sale prices of similar properties".

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Vienna is one of the most beautiful, livable cities in the world, with its masses of public housing, while major U.S. cities have homelessness crises and TV shows about house flipping for profit. Perhaps we should stop debating things based on the hokum of Econ 101 textbooks and look at what in the real world has actually worked (e.g. abolishing most forms of zoning, massive investments in public housing, rob…

The US also has a per capita GDP 50% higher than Austria ($52,131 vs $76,399). At $52,131 a year per capita GDP, Austria would be neatly in second to last place as the poorest state in the Union, as it would beat Mississippi at $47,190 but be beaten by West Virginia at $53,852. So perhaps the US policy is doing something correctly.

A more relevant measure might be median income per capita/household, adjusted for purchasing power. On that basis Austria does quite well.

Additionally, quality of life amounts to more than measures for disposable income etc. If you consider access to education and healthcare the picture might take on greater depth.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#46
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

expand?

The socialists who control the city have a majority but not a structural one (Paris was voting conservative for a long time). The gentrification of Paris would normally deplete their electorate, so you can see their efforts to buy prime real estate at high price to convert it to social housing as a very expensive vote-buying exercise.

Or perhaps they try to do what socialists are supposed to be doing, namely giving the people a place where they can live.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#47
post #4

The problem with charging below market prices for anything is that it necessarily leads to a mismatch of supply and demand. So the question is how do you allocate that supply? One way is to have hidden costs. This could range from straight up bribes, to paid consultants to fill out a lot of forms or talk to the right people, to just knowing someone Another way is a lottery which benefits a tiny percentage of people.…

Allocating public housing could be done through an auction system. Bidders would submit offers for annual rent. The surplus, after deducting costs, could then be allocated to buying or building additional housing for this program. Alternatively, it could be used directly to subsidize rent for low-income individuals.

In the end, this would solve the allocation problem while maximizing the available public housing. It would take a couple of years or decades to reach an equilibrium state I guess.

I'm probably missing something obvious here. Can somebody point out my mistake?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#48
post #4

The problem with charging below market prices for anything is that it necessarily leads to a mismatch of supply and demand. So the question is how do you allocate that supply? One way is to have hidden costs. This could range from straight up bribes, to paid consultants to fill out a lot of forms or talk to the right people, to just knowing someone Another way is a lottery which benefits a tiny percentage of people.…

It doesn’t take much to destroy a city with money, I can see it happen in a few cities in Europe now. Foreign money, mostly from non EU countries like Russia keeps pouring in raising the market value until no local can afford renting or owning an apartment anymore. Look at places like Sylt or some nicer towns in Switzerland or France, they basically got overrun by rich a••holes buying everything they could. Boggles my mind why people think it’s fair that local families compete with shady millionaires for living space.

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#49
post #31
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say this like a gotcha, but aren’t politicians supposed to do stuff that they think people will vote for?

Only if it is good for the country, otherwise it is at best demagogy, at worst corruption. And in this case borderline with gerrymandering (not by pushing constituency limits but by engineering a change in demographics).

Since when is encouraging people to be priced out “good for the country”?

Re: Paris preserves its mixed society by pouring billions into public housing

#50
post #11

This article reminded me of a thought I’ve often had: that the USA is a great place to live for the upper middle class and above, but it’s one of the worst wealthy countries to live in when you’re poor. From the context of the USA it seems downright amazing to see a society where public housing isn’t automatically assumed to be a number of bad things: taxpayer waste, crime haven, and antiquated disrepair. The benefit…

I think the big issue is it's a lot harder to start social housing in 2024 when you have extremely limited historical action on it. But in general a city buying real estate is a hedge on real estate prices increasing in that city, which can be extremely useful for city budgets if you have any costs associate with housing some portion of the population. Most cities of a certain size find they can't function without some amount of social housing: the free market prices out entire occupations that cities need. Even someone as non-essential as a Barista is actually quite important in that many of the people in NYC want to be able to buy coffee. But you aren't going to get Starbucks to pay the $20+ /hour needed for them to rent within a reasonable commute of where they live.

There are also questions about how much of out of control rents employers are responsible for and should bear the cost of, and how much it is the cities fault. To the degree to which rental prices are high because of politician supported NIMBYism it seems fairer for city budgets to bear those costs than third parties.

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