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People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

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Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#171

Post by troupo »

maxsilver wrote: post #116
safety1st wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in a number of cities across three continents and I tend to think that the idea of a "car-free" city is a quintessentially North American overreaction to a quintessentially North American problem. Like yes Wired we know that the suburb and the American commute have some serious downsides and the US leaned way too much into this model during a period of high population growth. However it's not like other ap…

It's tricky too, because a lot of "low density suburban wastelands" was already significantly phased out over a decade ago, in a lot of the US anyway. People hear "suburbs" and imagine a single-family home on 1 to 2+ acre lots -- something that looks like this -> https://st2.depositphotos.com/1658611/5485/i/950/depositphot... . And while that definitely still happens, it's really limited to the exurbs in the US these…

Those new suburbs are just as bad. They squeeze more people into less space while retaining all the issues of the original suburbs and adding a mass of people on top.

A proper suburb should be a mixed-zone small town with proper public transport and amenities you can walk to like European suburbs are.

Here's Farsta (10 km from Stockholm): https://maps.app.goo.gl/oAgBhNkvQFw5BVS16?g_st=ic

Here's Västerhaninge (30 km from Stockholm) https://maps.app.goo.gl/iGkzuzPC8y188teh8?g_st=ic

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#172

Post by stackedinserter »

AMA, I lived in a car-free city for 10 years.

It's not free of cars (there's plenty of them there), but public transit is good and you can live your life without owning a car. The main requirements: a) you need to be comfortable with living in a small apartment, b) you shouldn't have any interests outside of the city c) stick "one day - one errand" rule. YMMV, but I felt essentially locked inside a big city and hated it.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#173

Post by underdeserver »

gadders wrote: post #156
vladms wrote: post #14

I would have expected the article to give some clear pool/metric/statistics about "people hate the idea ... ". There are indeed loud people and big interest groups that oppose car free cities, but I am not sure about "people" in general. Sure, you need means of transport and to be able to live, and you can't change things over night, but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away o…

Good luck walking 5 mins with 6 or 8 bags of shopping, a five year old and a baby in a pushchair. All these arguments for car-free cities are mostly supported by young, single and childfree urbanites.

This is what a cargo bike is for.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#174

Post by op00to »

When I was in university, I worked on a study that collected people’s preferences for different types of developments. When you asked them what they wanted, they basically said easy driving and parking. When you showed pictures of different types of development (sprawl, transit oriented development, etc), they overwhelmingly picked the car-free option. People don’t know what they want.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#175

Post by immibis »

naasking wrote: post #74
immibis wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like moving should be made easier.

There's also questions around a partner. Can you only have relationships with people whos career is near your current employer?

Something something dense cities and good public transport. You can get from one side of Berlin to the other - not including suburbs - in half an hour and without needing to park.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#176

Post by giraffe_lady »

gadders wrote: post #156
vladms wrote: post #14

I would have expected the article to give some clear pool/metric/statistics about "people hate the idea ... ". There are indeed loud people and big interest groups that oppose car free cities, but I am not sure about "people" in general. Sure, you need means of transport and to be able to live, and you can't change things over night, but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away o…

Good luck walking 5 mins with 6 or 8 bags of shopping, a five year old and a baby in a pushchair. All these arguments for car-free cities are mostly supported by young, single and childfree urbanites.

Not everyone can or has access to a car so people still have to and do manage that in the car-centric world you're advocating for as well. Except now it's more like walk a mile, wait for the bus, walk another mile.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#177

Post by baq »

lucumo wrote: post #157
baq wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the problem is exactly the design of cities which make the car the best solution! The car is both the fastest and the most convenient if the roads are wide and the buildings are sprawled around. If you build the city tightly so it's easy to walk everywhere and everything is nearby, you a) don't need a car and more importantly b) there is no room for cars, this space is recovered for humans. Disclaimer: my househ…

I'm not talking about "everything". I'm talking about jobs. Your job. Is your job so generic that almost everybody in your country can do it? Because that's what you would need for this to be realistic. Everybody living so close to enough jobs of the exact type they desire. Not just a job title, but the industry, the size and type of company, the salary level, the type of people, and a bunch of other things. And even…

You're so focused on driving I feel you're missing the point of designing the space so driving isn't necessary. Your axiom is 'work is far away'.

But the point is it only happens if it's convenient to be far away. Design your city in a way it's convenient to be nearby and it'll be nearby. The problem is this design is completely at odds with private car ownership.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#178

Post by ecshafer »

stetrain wrote: post #47
ecshafer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, and South Korea fund trains is a big difference with the US (though ironically is similar to how the US used to fund trains in the 1800s). The companies (usually in some kind of private-public partnership from my understanding) who build and run the trains in East Asia typically get land around the train stop to develop into malls, shops, apartments, etc. These sales and rents then f…

This is sort of the model that Brightline (Fortress Investment) is using. They are spending money on the train service in hopes of increasing the values of their real estate investments.

Its a smart investment strategy. If you can offer someone a walkable little neighborhood where they can live, walk to a a gym, grocery store, and a couple bars or restaurants, AND also walk to a train that can take them to work and a few more areas. That is an attractive offer. Even if the person still has a car, people seem to enjoy not driving everywhere.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#179

Post by ghaff »

eropple wrote: post #162
ghaff wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One disadvantage is that many people do travel outside the city to go to an office in the suburbs, to visit friends, and to do weekend activities. I think everyone I know in Boston/Cambridge (which has relatively decent--really!--public transit) who isn't a very recent college grad owns a car.

I think this is kind of overstating the case, tbh. I don't even live in Boston anymore--I live on the South Shore--but I drive my car maybe once a week, usually to Home Depot or rarely on a pilgrimage to Micro Center. I bought a place where I could walk to a commuter rail stop (it's how I get to my office) and multiple supermarkets are within walking distance, so I bring a backpack. About half a dozen restaurants wit…

I don't think we're disagreeing. I do need a car to go anyplace. But even if I only used it on weekends, I'd almost certainly own one because of, as you say, the friction associated with renting something.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#180

Post by astura »

enaaem wrote: post #167
bko wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any children? I can't imagine car free city is good when you have two or more young children. For one, groceries are a problem as you likely need to stock more food to cook. Sure you can go to the store every other day but that takes a lot of time and is more expensive. Plus you are on a lot tighter schedule. Most people with kids race home to pick up children and don't want to stop by the store and schle…

I live in Europe and I used to cycle everywhere myself when I was a kid.

I live in the US and I did the same when I was a kid - cycle, walk, or bus. Not everywhere, but many places. I even took the bus to the mall with my friends when none of us had any money because it was something to do.

I couldn't imagine being a kid and living in a location where the only way I'd be able to go anywhere was to have a parent drive me. No thanks, ugh.

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