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People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

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Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#141

Post by gadders »

frereubu wrote: post #103

The funny thing that's been happening in the UK about Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) is that there's been lots of press about them being unpopular, driven to a large extent by the current Conservative government who seem to be trying to play to their base. And the threats against people who support them mentioned in the article are real. But rather embarassingly for the government, when they did some proper resear…

The fines for going down the wrong street without a permit were used by the local councils as a new revenue source.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#142

Post by apexalpha »

These (American) articles on urbanism and what not always make it seems much more insane than it is.

I live in the Netherlands, a country usually lauded for it's bicycles and public transport and what not.

And let me tell you: We still drive cars. All the time.

Even in Amsterdam, our biggest city, 4/10 families still owns their personal car. In the Netherlands as a whole it's 9.5/10 or so.

It's about THE MIX of options.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#143

Post by rufus_foreman »

bombcar wrote: post #58
lucumo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away or one 20 kilometers away" I doubt anybody would say "no I want only things far to be forced to use a car". For most people it's not about the supermarket. Those are a dime a dozen and all the same. It's easy to provide those in sufficient amounts everywhere. Now try it with jobs. Not any job, but your job. Is it possible to have you…

This is the crux of the matter - when people worked at a company for life, they could build their life around it. If you know you’ll be commuting to The Factory for the next forty years, you can happily take the bus or train or whatever to it. You buy your house and put down roots. Now cities are larger and your job changes every five to seven years and either you move each time to be near enough, or you let your fam…

>> If you know you’ll be commuting to The Factory for the next forty years

That was not the norm historically. Average job tenure is longer now that it was in the past. And the typical manufacturing facility lasted nowhere near forty years. The average lifespan of a factory is around 10 years. Most companies aren't around for forty years.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#144

Post by evolve2k »

NinjaSaves wrote: post #93

My biggest point on car free cities is that it is supported fervently by the people who would gain massive amounts of power over others if nobody had a car. If you're dependent on public transport, it can be taken away from you as leverage.

Ha what a joke. The biggest lockin is the financial burden of owning a compulsory car. Costs are transferred onto your household. It continues to keep workers poor. When you can bike you don’t need to earn the cost of maintaining a car if you don’t want to. No-one says you can’t buy a car or a jet pack, it’s the car dominance that is in question.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#145

Post by jimbokun »

safety1st wrote: post #70
CharlieDigital wrote: post #8

I was back in Taiwan last year after an extended absence. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get around with a combination of the mass rapid transit (MRT) system and high speed rail (HSR). When I was last there, you still needed to take a bus or taxi from TPE to the city center. Now right from TPE airport, you can be in either Taipei city center in 30 minutes (MRT) or on the other end of the island in short order…

I've lived in a number of cities across three continents and I tend to think that the idea of a "car-free" city is a quintessentially North American overreaction to a quintessentially North American problem. Like yes Wired we know that the suburb and the American commute have some serious downsides and the US leaned way too much into this model during a period of high population growth. However it's not like other ap…

> quintessentially North American overreaction to a quintessentially North American problem.

The article is mostly about London.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#146

Post by hawski »

NinjaSaves wrote: post #93

My biggest point on car free cities is that it is supported fervently by the people who would gain massive amounts of power over others if nobody had a car. If you're dependent on public transport, it can be taken away from you as leverage.

AFAIK many car free cities depend also on bikes. What do you mean by taking away public transport? Because a car can be taken away, the access to roads can be taken away, there are traffic jams and in case of a city wide emergency - when everyone has a car, no one has.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#147

Post by dijit »

gadders wrote: post #122
CharlieDigital wrote: post #8

I was back in Taiwan last year after an extended absence. It's pretty amazing how easy it is to get around with a combination of the mass rapid transit (MRT) system and high speed rail (HSR). When I was last there, you still needed to take a bus or taxi from TPE to the city center. Now right from TPE airport, you can be in either Taipei city center in 30 minutes (MRT) or on the other end of the island in short order…

It sounds like you're saying it works for tourists. How would I get a massive CostCo shop home in Taipei (or similar large amount of shopping)?

you must also ask the question why you want to make a huge shopping trip.

If you lived in a world where accessing the shop was easy and convenient, and they stocked everything you need, and you didn't have oodles of storage at home to store it all: why would you even make such a huge shopping trip?

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#148

Post by eropple »

Ekaros wrote: post #31
vladms wrote: post #14

I would have expected the article to give some clear pool/metric/statistics about "people hate the idea ... ". There are indeed loud people and big interest groups that oppose car free cities, but I am not sure about "people" in general. Sure, you need means of transport and to be able to live, and you can't change things over night, but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away o…

How about one 5 minutes away where I can go with my car? Which I feel like these people are trying to stop...

If your single car is rivalrous to several other people's ability to live and work in the urban core, yes, that's a pretty good reason to discourage the car.

Massachusetts has park-and-ride, and it's pretty great!

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#150

Post by dijit »

apexalpha wrote: post #142

These (American) articles on urbanism and what not always make it seems much more insane than it is. I live in the Netherlands, a country usually lauded for it's bicycles and public transport and what not. And let me tell you: We still drive cars. All the time. Even in Amsterdam, our biggest city, 4/10 families still owns their personal car. In the Netherlands as a whole it's 9.5/10 or so. It's about THE MIX of optio…

yeah, it needs to be reframed as "car-dependency" because that's the major issue, everyone is forced into driving because there's no viable options.

If every move you make requires a car, the traffic situation is always deleterious.

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