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People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

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Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#31

Post by Ekaros »

vladms wrote: post #14

I would have expected the article to give some clear pool/metric/statistics about "people hate the idea ... ". There are indeed loud people and big interest groups that oppose car free cities, but I am not sure about "people" in general. Sure, you need means of transport and to be able to live, and you can't change things over night, but if you would ask people "would you prefer to have a supermarket 5 minutes away o…

How about one 5 minutes away where I can go with my car? Which I feel like these people are trying to stop...

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#32

Post by ghaff »

tejohnso wrote: post #12

Not even sure how you'd start off hating the idea. Less noise, less pollution, shorter commute, cheaper infrastructure, more green, more walking, improved health...I mean...just off the top of my head I'm thinking of tons of advantages. I can't think of a single disadvantage. The only reason I need a car is because the city / neighbourhood is configured around the expectation that everyone has a car.

One disadvantage is that many people do travel outside the city to go to an office in the suburbs, to visit friends, and to do weekend activities. I think everyone I know in Boston/Cambridge (which has relatively decent--really!--public transit) who isn't a very recent college grad owns a car.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#33

Post by ethanbond »

tejohnso wrote: post #12

Not even sure how you'd start off hating the idea. Less noise, less pollution, shorter commute, cheaper infrastructure, more green, more walking, improved health...I mean...just off the top of my head I'm thinking of tons of advantages. I can't think of a single disadvantage. The only reason I need a car is because the city / neighbourhood is configured around the expectation that everyone has a car.

Yeah basically the reason is that people are imagining their current built environment, which (especially in the US) is often solely and exclusively designed for automobiles, and imagine it without cars. It’d be a legitimate nightmare.

What we need is gradual but rather aggressive pressure against cars that allow cities to adapt their services and layout. Congestion taxes and getting rid of parking are really great first steps.

In the US cars are also a big symbolic thing due to children being pretty much totally incapable of living independent lives until they’re 16 and get a car (or their friends do), also due to aforementioned built environment.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#34

Post by mwagstaff »

As someone who has worked in London for many years, the difference is amazing. Biking in the city is now enjoyable, and the air quality is (subjectively, even without the data) dramatically better.

There was an incredible resistance to the recently introduced ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) expansion, but I'm incredibly grateful for the sake of my children, if nothing else, that it has been pushed through.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#35

Post by dbuxton »

I'd quibble with the title. Based on my experience in London, most middle-class/white collar workers love car-free living. Most blue-collar workers don't like it. They continue not liking it once it becomes reality. (Although maybe they realize that it's not as bad as they feared).

I think this is basically another example of political polarization, combined with employment patterns. White collar workers broadly speaking place a higher value on their time and mostly belong to "tribes" that value their health and environment. Removing cars is great for that as bikes give control over journey times (and in most cases in e.g. London reduce them) while positively impacting the other.

Blue collar workers may not be able to do their jobs with just a messenger bag containing a laptop and airpods. Also, their political identity has been dragged further towards the radical-individualism end of the spectrum where collective action on e.g. environment is hard, and trust for bossy health authorities telling them to exercise more is low.

The slightly strange side effect is that you end up with an item which is way cheaper (a bike at e.g. school dropoff vs a car) that becomes a signifier of social status. I am sure there are loads of examples of this phenomenon but none spring immediately to mind!

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#36

Post by notaustinpowers »

tejohnso wrote: post #12

Not even sure how you'd start off hating the idea. Less noise, less pollution, shorter commute, cheaper infrastructure, more green, more walking, improved health...I mean...just off the top of my head I'm thinking of tons of advantages. I can't think of a single disadvantage. The only reason I need a car is because the city / neighbourhood is configured around the expectation that everyone has a car.

From my experience, a lot of the hate that car-free cities and "15 Minute Cities" get is from fearmongering from far-right voices on social media.

They're totalitarian ploys that will be used to track your every movement and have the government dictate when and where you can go. They're a plot to create new ghettos for "undesireables". They're to take away your freedom of movement. They're completely antithetical to America! Blah blah blah.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#37

Post by JoshTriplett »

asdajksah2123 wrote: post #3

People's aversion to change, even when the change is for something that is objectively better in every way, is really really annoying.

People's tendency to describe a change they like as "objectively better" for everyone is really really annoying.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#38

Post by Lio »

epolanski wrote: post #9
asdajksah2123 wrote: post #3

People's aversion to change, even when the change is for something that is objectively better in every way, is really really annoying.

People mock the soviet way of building neighborhoods but it was miles better. Instead of extensive pointless suburbs where everybody has his house, they built huge 8/10 story buildings. The buildings were surrounded by parks, benches, places for kids to play. People aggregated a lot and everything was relatively close (building taller means you can build a lot closer to downtown). I have lived 6 months in Ohio, Colum…

This sounds very like some of the high-rise estates built in the UK in the past.

The experience here was... not good.

I think what Barcelona has done is a much better model.

Re: People hate the idea of car-free cities until they live in one

#40

Post by jddj »

lucumo wrote: post #25

There's probably also a bit of selection bias going on. People who prefer car usage will be less likely to go live in places where car ownership is difficult. The longer a city is "car-free" the more of that bias will accumulate. There's really not much in the article to suggest that the same people are first against and later in favour. It shouldn't be surprising that some people prefer to live in car-free places, b…

N of 1 here, but I've lived extensively in both environments. Love cars, got my licence on my birthday the first day I could apply.

That said, I'm noticeably happier and healthier whenever I don't need to own one. My quality of life is higher when living somewhere everything is accessible by walking and by efficient public transport.

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