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Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

plantbasednews.org

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Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kombucha is another one.

I nearly poisoned myself making kombucha at home, despite careful sanitizing and careful monitoring of pH and temperature. As a result I'm really not fond of casual recommendations to brew kombucha. Seems easy to mess up.

Poisoned from what?

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kombucha is another one.

I nearly poisoned myself making kombucha at home, despite careful sanitizing and careful monitoring of pH and temperature. As a result I'm really not fond of casual recommendations to brew kombucha. Seems easy to mess up.

How were you poisoned? What happened to your kombucha?

When I make kombucha I am quite careless in the process, but it always turns out fine.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#73

I wish the article lingered a bit more on how people might've been fermenting foods in the past as well as exploring what fermentable food options were available. It would be interesting to run some experiments storing various foods in different ecosystems over long periods of time. How falsifiable is their hypothesis? This would've been mostly in the African continent, right? I'd imagine it would be hard to get cons…

The excellent book On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen (Harold McGee) has sections on major food groups, along with some incredible stories of how those foods have been preserved in the past — many of which involve some sort of fermentation. I recall one story about birds being encased inside a dead seal, which was then buried for a time (looking that up now, I think it's Inuit 'kiviak'). It's a…

Check out the manga/anime Moyashimon if you haven't already

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#74

I wish the article lingered a bit more on how people might've been fermenting foods in the past as well as exploring what fermentable food options were available. It would be interesting to run some experiments storing various foods in different ecosystems over long periods of time. How falsifiable is their hypothesis? This would've been mostly in the African continent, right? I'd imagine it would be hard to get cons…

Iru, fermented locust beans, come from Africa. Tempeh comes from Indonesia. Seems like most fermented foods prefer somewhat warm temperatures

I regularly make (grow) tempeh and koji and both require a food dehydrator to keep the temperature around 30°C for the duration of the fermentation (in my case, living in the Netherlands, so Western Europe). Both tempeh and koji are molds (mycelium that doesn't produce mushrooms).

I also make milk kefir, water kefir, sourdough and kombucha and while none of these cultures require the higher temperatures, they do thrive in the higher temperatures.

I also grow quite a few species of mushrooms and have learned that a lot of species incubate quite aggressively at higher temperatures (25-35°C).

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#75
post #64

I eat natto (fermented soy beans) every day. It's probably the cheapest and most healthy food you can buy in Japan. I used to hate the smell and texture, but force myself enough times made me gradually enjoy it.

Strange question, perhaps, but I'm curious because I always wanted to try Nattō:

If you eat it regularly, do you also smell like it?

I ask because people who eat a lot of garlic (or masala spice) often have strong body odor due to consuming these spices.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#76
post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Yes, meat being the driver is the more common (and simpler) explanation for our smaller intestines and larger brains. I guess plantbasednews.org just accidentally left this alternative explanation out. That said, fermented foods could very well have played a part in it.

Likely more accurate.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks any surviving development in an organism is due to this "one weird trick" thing, as opposed to a multitude of factors that rendered that organism fit for their environment, at least enough to pass said development on, anyway. Meat, fermented foods, fire, and a slew of other variables likely played a role.

Talking about evolution as though there was some single exploding popcorn kernel that caused change is a pretty narrow take on things. Sites like the one in the link only serve to perpetuate such shallow thinking on the matter, and in this case, likely to push a narrative.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#77
post #9

This is a conjecture, not a study. Sorry if that seems to be nitpicking, but I see too many "studies" like this. A study is supposed to report the truth of something that the author studied. But this is an idea that the author liked and explored, and then wrote up. Maybe we can keep calling these studies, and come up with another term for fact based studies. And not "theory" please, that word in a scientific context…

This study strikes me as promotional material with a science flavour. It helps foster the desire for fermented food, ie its a means to shift premium product off shelves. I fancy some kimchi or kefir myself, having read it! Unfortunately, I think even serious studies have this flaw (of being beholden to funding). The person or group providing the funding need to get a return on their investment. Ie even those more ser…

> It helps foster the desire for fermented food, ie its a means to shift premium product off shelves.

Sorry but this sounds disingenuous to me. Isn't one of the hallmarks of fermented foods that you can prepare them at home, fairly cheaply in lots of cases? It is to me...

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#78
post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Yeah not sure I understand the entire idea behind correctly. To stick with other primates for now. Gorilla's have an obscene amount of muscles; adults need 8000 calories per day, compared to 2000-3000 calories for an adult human. Somewhere, even though they eat low bioavailable food, even though they had to eat all day the heave muscle guys & girls had better chances of survival. Why do we think the brain's need are…

Generally, the great apes are better adapted to plant diets, humans are better adapted for eating meat. Gorillas eat leaves and pith, and A LOT of it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964658/

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#79
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study strikes me as promotional material with a science flavour. It helps foster the desire for fermented food, ie its a means to shift premium product off shelves. I fancy some kimchi or kefir myself, having read it! Unfortunately, I think even serious studies have this flaw (of being beholden to funding). The person or group providing the funding need to get a return on their investment. Ie even those more ser…

> It helps foster the desire for fermented food, ie its a means to shift premium product off shelves. Sorry but this sounds disingenuous to me. Isn't one of the hallmarks of fermented foods that you can prepare them at home, fairly cheaply in lots of cases? It is to me...

There are books, kits, jars, drinks, restaurants. And you can buy fermented foods in shops too.

Re: Study puts fermented foods, not fire, as pivotal moment in human brain growth

#80
post #3

From the article: "Backing up this hypothesis is the fact that humans have relatively smaller large intestines than other primates. This indicates that our ancestors were eating food that was already partly broken down by fermentation." IIRC another interpretation of the smaller large intestine is that early humans were eating more bioavailable food (i.e. meat) than other primates, which doesn't need to be broken dow…

Yes, meat being the driver is the more common (and simpler) explanation for our smaller intestines and larger brains. I guess plantbasednews.org just accidentally left this alternative explanation out. That said, fermented foods could very well have played a part in it.

But lots of animals also eat (uncooked) meat. It doesnt explain why the developmental difference occured in humans but not other animals eating a similar diet.

But cooked meat, on the other hand, can explain this difference.

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