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Wozniak calls for open Apple

itnews.com.au

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Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#91

Post by Loic »

This would be a cultural change, a big one. Jobs said many times he considered his products as perfect and was against the ability to be able to open them (hardware and software). This obsession not to be able to open the system extended even to the new Apple building which is designed without any opening windows. You can see that everywhere in the Apple products.

This is the philosophy of Steve Jobs, he even said he did not want to go through surgery first because he did not wanted to be "opened".

This is really interesting, in fact, these points are the ones I found the most interesting in all the media frenzy we got after his death.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#92

Post by megablast »

ricardobeat wrote: post #65
rogerbinns wrote: post #21

Here is a nice comparison. Buy a mobile device and try to use the standard developer tools to put Hello World on it. Android: Download Eclipse (Windows, Linux or Mac) and the Android SDK (Windows, Linux or Mac) - no accounts or registration needed for either of these. In your phone menus enable development and connect via USB. In Eclipse make your hello world project, and hit Run or Debug. Enjoy. Apple: You must buy…

That's a brutal over-simplification of what you need before developing for Android. "Downloading the Android SDK" is actually a dozen steps of installs, updates, add-ons, setting up emulator devices and so on. The Apple dance takes a couple minutes to do and costs $99/year.

If you are using the simulator, you also need to setup that separately in a complicated process, and then it runs damn slow. YOu need to match versions as well. I had an old eclipse, and there was no warning, but I could not get the newer android sdks.

Apple have it right once you have installed xcode. And if you only want to run in the simulator, you do not need to worry about certs.

They both could improve, but are also light years ahead of BB.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#93

Post by bnr »

nickik wrote: post #89
dave1010uk wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maemo (as used on the Nokia N900) : On the device, tap the menu button, then tap "Xterm" Type in 'nano helloworld.py' Enter the text 'print "Hello, World!"' Ctrl-x, ctrl-s to save the file Enter 'python helloworld.py' and press enter Of course, as Maemo is based on Debian, you can easily install Ruby, PHP or even a C compiler.

To bad nokia is fucking stupid, they had pure gold there.

Too bad no consumer cares for that kind of gold.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#94

Post by Arcanum-XIII »

bad_user wrote: post #73
Tloewald wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing xcode is staggeringly more pleasant than installing eclipse in my experience. The developer certificate song and dance is a total pain in the butt, but note that you can test and build your hello world for iOS without a device at all, no hoops to jump, and it works really well.

Installing xcode is staggeringly more pleasant than installing eclipse in my experience People saying that don't really know what they are talking about. Installing Eclipse involves these steps: 1) install Java, which on my Ubuntu is just " sudo aptitude install openjdk-6-jdk " and that's it 2) download an archive from Eclipse.org and unzip it somewhere 3) there is no step 3 Installing the Android plugin is equally e…

XCode : open the app store, search xcode, click install. Done.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#95

Post by anextio »

nl wrote: post #86
rogerbinns wrote: post #21

Here is a nice comparison. Buy a mobile device and try to use the standard developer tools to put Hello World on it. Android: Download Eclipse (Windows, Linux or Mac) and the Android SDK (Windows, Linux or Mac) - no accounts or registration needed for either of these. In your phone menus enable development and connect via USB. In Eclipse make your hello world project, and hit Run or Debug. Enjoy. Apple: You must buy…

If you think the Apple dance is bad for getting an app on your own phone, try distributing for beta testing! People have written Apps to help you work around how difficult it is (eg TestFlight), but even then your beta testers have to download & sign up for some random 3rd party app, then request your app just to be able to test it. Compare that to Android: enable 3rd party apps via the settings menu, then email them…

You should still be using something like TestFlight. Emailing builds arounds is nice but reaches critical levels of headache after the 5th or so beta.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#96

Post by anextio »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #68
ricardobeat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porting XCode and emulators to windows/linux is probably a huge undertaking, the technology stack is completely different. In addition, the cost of a Mac for development ($599 for a mini) is not stopping anybody, and most iOS developers will already have one, so there's little return to be had.

$599 for a mini would be stopping me for me one. Since I'm not getting paid to do mobile development $599 is money that could get me a holiday or a used car, I'm not trying to make angry birds here; just a few tools to make my life easier. Besides it seems silly to spend all that money on a low spec Mac when I already have a perfectly serviceable workstation that I have invested in. Even if it cost them a fair amount…

Nope.

Xcode and the entire stack behind it do not run on Windows or Linux. It would take a team of engineers months to pull it off, then another team to continuously support it. In those months, the feature set of Xcode and the compilers will have improved again and there would never be a stable version for a different platform.

Porting Xcode to Windows or Linux would probably be the worst idea Apple ever made.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#97

Post by megablast »

gnufied wrote: post #69
ricardobeat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a brutal over-simplification of what you need before developing for Android. "Downloading the Android SDK" is actually a dozen steps of installs, updates, add-ons, setting up emulator devices and so on. The Apple dance takes a couple minutes to do and costs $99/year.

Ahem, if you are registering from something like India. You will have to fax some documents to them for review. There is no option to even pay online. In fact, this song and dance is so time consuming that, I haven't bothered to register an account myself.

I have no idea whether you are talking about Apple or Google.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#98

Post by alastairpat »

Xuzz wrote: post #63
rogerbinns wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically do you have to do to get that dev certificate? Is that for you or for the device? (Note I'm only talking about the case where you want to put you own app on your own device, not about publishing it to the general public.) Hopefully my original post inspires someone to try this with all the platforms. I'm particularly aware of the requirements to create accounts and registrations, the size of downloa…

You pay $99 for an App Hub registration, then sign in to the device registration app on the desktop with the device plugged in. After that, it's pretty much automatic. I haven't done that much WP dev yet, so I'm not sure about friend's devices, but so far it's been relatively painless. (Well, except Windows making installing VS and the Zune software almost impossible, but that's just what happens with Windows. On a c…

Just as an aside, you get free registration with App Hub as a student via DreamSpark (or at least you did about a year ago; I assume it's still the case.)

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#99

Post by tobiasu »

bnr wrote: post #93
nickik wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To bad nokia is fucking stupid, they had pure gold there.

Too bad no consumer cares for that kind of gold.

citation needed...

WP: Despite a modest launch and a limited distribution in terms of markets, Nokia's N9 model has reached sales estimated between 1.5 and 2 million devices. According to Nokia's own quarterly report and analyst company Canalys analyses, the combined deliveries of the comparable Lumia devices summed to approximately 1.2-1.5 million in the last quarter.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#100

Post by anextio »

Derbasti wrote: post #71

The sad truth is, if Apple were a private company, they could do this. Being a publicly traded company, their first responsibility is their shareholders. Hence, they can not indulge in good-heartedness just for the sake of it if there is even a slight chance that it won't bring in money. This is the big big problem with the stock market.

That's a fairly common meme and a complete misunderstanding of the motives of corporations.

Companies do lots of things that don't immediately look like profit-gaining moves to investors.

Actually, put another way, do you think that Google is not a corporation, and instead a basket of goodwill, since they market things as 'open'?

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