.NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction • Hacker News Board

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#11

Post by bitwize » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 8:10 AM UTC

ecmascript wrote: post #2

The experience I have of working in C# and .NET is that you use everything from Microsoft, even if it sucks. It's like a rule that goes through every "Microsoft shop" out there. They are as much of zombies as the apple fanboys are. It doesn't matter what the company do, they will buy it and lick it up like they were a cat licking cream from a platter.

> They are as much of zombies as the apple fanboys are. It doesn't matter what the company do, they will buy it and lick it up like they were a cat licking cream from a platter.

My cat is much pickier about his cream than tech fanbois are about their stack choices.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#12

Post by neonsunset » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 8:21 AM UTC

stereopixels wrote: post #4

I'm a .NET developer, and honestly, this is the worst part of being one; we get good third party tools, we get promises from Microsoft about them being all about open source, and Microsoft constantly move in and obliterate all the competition; there are countless examples out there. A few years ago we had a great amount of choice around DI containers for example - they filled an obvious gap Microsoft had given no sol…

I don't think EEE applies to killing off unmaintained, underused and extremely badly written DI containers like Unity DI or Autofac. Honestly, both can burn in hell. And nowadays M.E.DI isn't the sole choice and there is a rich set of alive and well DI frameworks to use depending on your needs.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#13

Post by yread » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 8:37 AM UTC

> There’s also the “our lawyers made us choose our technology stack” excuse, the enterprise version of “the dog ate my homework:”

This is a real thing. Even if you think including complex random unaudited opensource software with huge attack surface doesn't endanger your security, it does significantly increase the amount of work you need to do if you want ISO 27001 or similar cert

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#14

Post by mathw » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 9:01 AM UTC

The author blames "senior developers" for library usage policies. I've been a senior (now principal) developer for well over a decade and we've never had a single say in anything like that. That's when the compliance team and the lawyers get involved.

I can't argue with most of the rest of it though.

.NET is only just fit for purpose, still. Azure is atrocious. I didn't choose any of this, it's our CTO who decided we'd build our new platform on Azure, with loads of support from Microsoft promised.

Hah.

At least I get to solve interesting problems - and they'd be interesting and difficult on any platform.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#15

Post by GoblinSlayer » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 9:15 AM UTC

pregnenolone wrote: post #9

It's the main reason I never liked .NET and I feel like a lot of .NET proponents suffer from Stockholm syndrome. The argument that having few options would actually be a good thing is so absurd.

It's not a .net thing, it's analysis paralysis that was known before Aesop.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#16

Post by rswskg » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 9:33 AM UTC

mathw wrote: post #14

The author blames "senior developers" for library usage policies. I've been a senior (now principal) developer for well over a decade and we've never had a single say in anything like that. That's when the compliance team and the lawyers get involved. I can't argue with most of the rest of it though. .NET is only just fit for purpose, still. Azure is atrocious. I didn't choose any of this, it's our CTO who decided we…

you have lawyers sign off your libs?

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#17

Post by jen20 » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 12:26 PM UTC

mathw wrote: post #14

The author blames "senior developers" for library usage policies. I've been a senior (now principal) developer for well over a decade and we've never had a single say in anything like that. That's when the compliance team and the lawyers get involved. I can't argue with most of the rest of it though. .NET is only just fit for purpose, still. Azure is atrocious. I didn't choose any of this, it's our CTO who decided we…

What industry do you work in? I’ve done the gamut of regulated industry work - medical, defense, banking etc, and never run into this. Aaron is (as usual) spot on with his analysis.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#18

Post by nunez » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 1:06 PM UTC

There are still engineers (mostly engineering directors) who, TO THIS DAY, hate open-source and perceive it as a threat. That's absolutely wackadoo to me. Most of these types are all-in on Microsoft, so this attitude being pervasive within .NET isn't surprising.

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#19

Post by nunez » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 1:11 PM UTC

rswskg wrote: post #16

mathw wrote: post #14

The author blames "senior developers" for library usage policies. I've been a senior (now principal) developer for well over a decade and we've never had a single say in anything like that. That's when the compliance team and the lawyers get involved. I can't argue with most of the rest of it though. .NET is only just fit for purpose, still. Azure is atrocious. I didn't choose any of this, it's our CTO who decided we…

you have lawyers sign off your libs?

this is fairly common in the gov and financial sectors (but it's enterprise architects or security engineers doing the signing)

Re: .NET Developers Begging for Ecosystem Destruction

#20

Post by ofrzeta » Tue, Mar 19, 2024, 1:12 PM UTC

yread wrote: post #13

> There’s also the “our lawyers made us choose our technology stack” excuse, the enterprise version of “the dog ate my homework:” This is a real thing. Even if you think including complex random unaudited opensource software with huge attack surface doesn't endanger your security, it does significantly increase the amount of work you need to do if you want ISO 27001 or similar cert

> significantly increase the amount of work you need to do if you want ISO 27001 or similar cert

Not true in my experience. We used a lot of "open source" software at work but that didn't matter in the certification. Maybe it depends on the auditor.