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Wozniak calls for open Apple

itnews.com.au

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Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#81

Post by z92 »

bad_user wrote: post #67
ricardobeat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a brutal over-simplification of what you need before developing for Android. "Downloading the Android SDK" is actually a dozen steps of installs, updates, add-ons, setting up emulator devices and so on. The Apple dance takes a couple minutes to do and costs $99/year.

"Downloading the Android SDK" is actually a dozen steps of installs, updates, add-ons, setting up emulator devices and so on. That's not true. The first time I did it, it took me something like 10 minutes. I must say that I was already familiar enough with Eclipse to install the plugin without much struggling (though it can't get any easier, unless it came built-in). Beginners should also try out IntelliJ IDEA which…

The certificates cost $99/year. You can't put hello world on your iPhone without those.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#82

Post by sbuk »

maz29 wrote: post #19

I always wondered what would happen if someone leaked the source code to OSX or iOS. Would the forked versions outshine new releases? In my opinion normal users would prefer apple's versions while hackers would take the other route for greater flexibility. Maybe Woz should anonymously leak iOS 4 or OSX 10.4 source. Apple wouldn't have to worry about maintaining documentation and it would also give them a nice buffer…

You do realise that a large portion of OSX/iOS is open? The closed portions of the os are mainly the GUI layer. See for yourself; http://opensource.apple.com and http://www.puredarwin.org/

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#83

Post by ricardobeat »

rogerbinns wrote: post #77
ricardobeat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a brutal over-simplification of what you need before developing for Android. "Downloading the Android SDK" is actually a dozen steps of installs, updates, add-ons, setting up emulator devices and so on. The Apple dance takes a couple minutes to do and costs $99/year.

You are right that joining Eclipse and the Android SDK is not as seamless as it should be. Technically you don't need Eclipse and the SDK can create Hello World for you in addition to building and deploying it. (Another minor difference I noticed between Android and Xcode/iOS is that a auto-created Android project printed "hello project" on the screen while the iOS one was blank.) These are the Android SDK instructio…

There is a "iOS Provisioning Portal" and the "Development Provisioning Assistant", a 4-step wizard that guides you through creating the necessary profiles, but they are behind a login. There's a few SSs over at PhoneGap docs: http://www.adobe.com/fr/devnet/dreamweaver/articles/phonegap...

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#84

Post by userdeveloper »

vetinari wrote: post #76
Tloewald wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative at the time was to buy an mp3 player with no way for normal people to load or buy music. It's precisely because of the lack of hoop jumping that iPod took off. Don't confuse the customer experience with the developer experience. Apple has always considered ease of use for end users a top priority and ease of use for programmers to be a distant nth.

When iTunes came out, there was no way to buy music with it either. It was that way for several years. Adding to that, when iTunes came out, most people didn't put any thought into ID3 tags. When they imported their music, their library became one big mess. So much for ease of use for end users.

Windows support was not immediate either. It took some time. I used to use a program written by a student at Williams College. I forget the name. It was more simple and faster than iTunes. Then for a while I used a Perl script. I must admit, in retrospect, Apple knew what they were doing. I just couldn't see the point in iTunes. I doubted whether their $1/song "music store", and forcing users to use it by forcing them to install iTunes, would ever fly.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#85

Post by colonelxc »

zanny wrote: post #78
jinushaun wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate when people list "buy a mac" as the first step for iOS development. Some of us already have one. In order to develop for Eclipse, I'd have to buy/own a computer as well.

Do note they are working on IDE's for Android itself that would let you make apps on the device without the need for a secondary system.

I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say "they", but there is an Android IDE for building android apps already on the Play store:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui&#3...

I've only done some simple hello world type programs, but I was impressed.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#86

Post by nl »

rogerbinns wrote: post #21

Here is a nice comparison. Buy a mobile device and try to use the standard developer tools to put Hello World on it. Android: Download Eclipse (Windows, Linux or Mac) and the Android SDK (Windows, Linux or Mac) - no accounts or registration needed for either of these. In your phone menus enable development and connect via USB. In Eclipse make your hello world project, and hit Run or Debug. Enjoy. Apple: You must buy…

If you think the Apple dance is bad for getting an app on your own phone, try distributing for beta testing!

People have written Apps to help you work around how difficult it is (eg TestFlight), but even then your beta testers have to download & sign up for some random 3rd party app, then request your app just to be able to test it. Compare that to Android: enable 3rd party apps via the settings menu, then email them the app.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#87

Post by dave1010uk »

rogerbinns wrote: post #21

Here is a nice comparison. Buy a mobile device and try to use the standard developer tools to put Hello World on it. Android: Download Eclipse (Windows, Linux or Mac) and the Android SDK (Windows, Linux or Mac) - no accounts or registration needed for either of these. In your phone menus enable development and connect via USB. In Eclipse make your hello world project, and hit Run or Debug. Enjoy. Apple: You must buy…

Maemo (as used on the Nokia N900) :

    On the device, tap the menu button, then tap "Xterm"
    Type in 'nano helloworld.py'
    Enter the text 'print "Hello, World!"'
    Ctrl-x, ctrl-s to save the file
    Enter 'python helloworld.py' and press enter
Of course, as Maemo is based on Debian, you can easily install Ruby, PHP or even a C compiler.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#88

Post by LinXitoW »

Rudism wrote: post #25
rogerbinns wrote: post #21

Here is a nice comparison. Buy a mobile device and try to use the standard developer tools to put Hello World on it. Android: Download Eclipse (Windows, Linux or Mac) and the Android SDK (Windows, Linux or Mac) - no accounts or registration needed for either of these. In your phone menus enable development and connect via USB. In Eclipse make your hello world project, and hit Run or Debug. Enjoy. Apple: You must buy…

The Apple song and dance involves creating developer certificates, project-specific code-signing certs, installing them all on your Mac and your device, and then setting up XCode to use the correct certificate combinations for the correct projects in the correct environments when signing the code (I can't say for certain how this all works because I basically trial-and-errored it until it miraculously started working…

I had to learn Objective-C, how to use a Mac and Xcode inside of a month, because the company we normally outsourced this kind of development to didn't have time.

Never in my wildest dreams would I've guessed that the actual programming would be the easiest part.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#89

Post by nickik »

dave1010uk wrote: post #87
rogerbinns wrote: post #21

Here is a nice comparison. Buy a mobile device and try to use the standard developer tools to put Hello World on it. Android: Download Eclipse (Windows, Linux or Mac) and the Android SDK (Windows, Linux or Mac) - no accounts or registration needed for either of these. In your phone menus enable development and connect via USB. In Eclipse make your hello world project, and hit Run or Debug. Enjoy. Apple: You must buy…

Maemo (as used on the Nokia N900) : On the device, tap the menu button, then tap "Xterm" Type in 'nano helloworld.py' Enter the text 'print "Hello, World!"' Ctrl-x, ctrl-s to save the file Enter 'python helloworld.py' and press enter Of course, as Maemo is based on Debian, you can easily install Ruby, PHP or even a C compiler.

To bad nokia is fucking stupid, they had pure gold there.

Re: Wozniak calls for open Apple

#90

Post by fpgeek »

vetinari wrote: post #79
Tloewald wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. This meme. 1) plenty of non apple browsers in app store, try searching. No HTML rendering engines because that's a security issue. 1a) Microsoft did a heck of a lot more than bundle IE. They made it impossible to remove or avoid or even hide. (you can hide Safari on the tenth home screen in iOS -- IE was locked onto your desktop). They also did similar things to screw around with Java, QuickTime. Borland, Parad…

> iOS was incredibly open compared with predecessors. Not true. The first two releases of Series 60 were wide open, you could develop whatever you wanted. The third one required certificate signing, so it was as much "open" as iOS. Windows Mobile had optional signing. In effect, it was wide open for development too. That was all several years before iOS.

Don't forget Palm OS. Wide-open development plus free ringtones from whatever music you want (if you know the trick).
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