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Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

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Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#191

Post by Retric »

CalRobert wrote: post #179
Retric wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers are a lot more common than cyclists in the US. So yes cars kill ~7,000 pedestrians per year vs ~4 (2013-2020) for bikes, but normalize the numbers and bikes are also very dangerous in the US especially on a per mile basis. https://www.nationalworld.com/news/politics/pedestrians-kill... https://www.statista.com/chart/17194/pedestrian-fatalities-i...

your first link is for the UK, I think? That seems like a separate issue in a place with very different urban design and habits. What's remarkable is that cars kill thousands of pedestrians _even after we've greatly reduced the frequency of walking_. If the pool were full of sharks then deaths by shark would quickly fall to 0 of course since nobody would swim anymore!

Ops, can’t find national numbers for the US. NYC alone had at least 7 pedestrians killed by cyclists from 2011-2019 plus several more recent deaths not counted by this article. That works out to ~10x safer per cyclist and fairly close mile. (As a side note NYC cabs are driving 100k miles per year!)

https://nypost.com/2019/08/31/nyc-bicyclists-are-killing-ped...

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#192

Post by Retric »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #180
Retric wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers are a lot more common than cyclists in the US. So yes cars kill ~7,000 pedestrians per year vs ~4 (2013-2020) for bikes, but normalize the numbers and bikes are also very dangerous in the US especially on a per mile basis. https://www.nationalworld.com/news/politics/pedestrians-kill... https://www.statista.com/chart/17194/pedestrian-fatalities-i...

Seems like much of the danger of cycling is due to being near cars though, while the reverse isn't true. Better infrastructure and less car subsidy is likely to make cycling a lot safer, whereas cars already have ~all the infrastructure and subsidy and are still enormously dangerous

The danger for cyclists is drivers, the danger for pedestrians is both.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#193

Post by milkytron »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #162
doctor_phil wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the American fixation of cars. Isn't public roads a mild form of communism?

Freedom of movement. Cars represent freedom of movement akin to a horse with a trailer, except you have an engine instead of a horse. I dont think Americans care for the current road monopoly states have, or the monopolistic tolls and enforcement. The idea of freedom of movement isn't really a European-centric ideal - its more uniquely American and derived from being a nation derived from those escaping injustices of…

I agree, but for those that truly value freedom, I would think that they would also value the freedom of choice.

Car dependent societies don't allow many choices, you are restricted to only choosing a car for transportation.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#194

Post by milkytron »

adrianN wrote: post #2

Given safe infrastructure cycling is one of the fastest most reliable forms of transportation in cities. No wonder more people ride if you improve the experience.

It truly is. I moved to a city across my country that has pretty good bike infrastructure. I had never even considered riding a bike for transportation, but after experiencing somewhat good infrastructure that got me to my office faster than driving, I was blown away by how enjoyable, sustainable, and economical it can be.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#195

Post by milkytron »

dublinben wrote: post #23
giraffe_lady wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure some people do but I know on HN specifically in most threads around american urban cycling you will see some extremely clear-eyed car advocates. They (rightly) recognize that better prioritizing cycling requires, to some extent, fewer resources allocated to car use and oppose it on those grounds. Some of it is ignorance but a lot of it is not, and a continuing car-centric world is just their well understood…

Even as a driver, if you think about the second-order effects of getting more (other) people out of their cars, it becomes obvious that it would improve traffic for you. An enlightened self-interested driver would want to increase investment in alternatives to driving, since that is the only proven solution for congestion. As a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k

Getting people out of cars also reduces tax spend on road costs. Bike infrastructure lasts longer and is cheaper to maintain than a road, which can result in improved municipal finances.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#196

Post by Affric »

lucsky wrote: post #164
darkamaul wrote: post #63

As a daily biker in Paris (and for years), I think it is hard to grasp the changes Paris has seen in the last years. You now even get to see some congestion on bike lanes (Bd Sebastopol for instance), because they are too many cyclist on an older (and thus too narrow) bike lane. This change, the new subway lanes, and the reduction of car usage in the city make the city much more enjoyable on a day to day basis, espec…

> cyclists are less annoying than drivers I had to laugh out loud at this, please define "less annoying". As a daily cyclist in Paris my very own statistics say that about 95% of them (yes, that's NINETY FIVE percent) are either color blind, suicidal or willfully ignore the most basic rule, aka red lights. And yes that include M12 signs which have arrows indicating directions in which running the red light is authori…

This is not just Paris but drivers are the same on the inside.

The in my experience difference is enforcement. A higher proportion of cyclists believe they will get away with breaking rules and so you see much more of it. Once it’s a norm to sneak around that corner or cross that road then other rule breaking follows.

This can only be fixed with enforcement. It can be ameliorated with infrastructure and more permissive rules where appropriate but the only way to make cyclists less annoying is enforcement.

EDIT: I say this as someone who very rarely drives and even then only outside of the city.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#197

Post by battery_glasses »

ryandrake wrote: post #30

I don’t get how you can make bicycling your only form of transportation, even if the bike travel infrastructure and parking is adequate. When I bicycle, even for a short amount of time like 15 minutes, I sweat, and end up a stinky wet mess at my destination. Especially in the summer. My shoes and pants get dirty from the road and my hair gets wet and messed up especially if it’s raining. So if I’m going anywhere with…

Ebike is a good solution. I ride 20 minutes to work and never show up sweaty. The breeze works better than AC to keep me cool even on 85F+ days.

I invested in a good rain jacked with helmet compatible hood and a pair of rain pants and I am able to ride in all but the heaviest of PNW rains.

I do end up nearly always carrying a pannier with me wherever I bike (usually to hold the extra layers I need while biking) but that has turned out to rarely ever be an issue.

I have been able to replace ~80% of my car trips the bike, it could be 99%+ if I were a little less lazy.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#198

Post by getwiththeprog »

yakireev wrote: post #142
chopsuey5540 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also been a daily cyclist for over 10 years in Paris and paradoxically, I feel less safe now when I'm riding on shared infrastructure (that is roads without a separated cycling lane). I attribute it to the fact that people driving, and especially people who HAVE to drive (taxis, deliveries, etc...) are facing insane levels of congestion and are lashing out on cyclists because they blame them for being stuck in t…

> Given the very limited space available in Paris centre, I don't really see an easy way unfortunately... Bicycles take less space than cars, both on road and when parked, don't they? A four-lane bicycle highway is as wide as one-lane car road. If anything, people switching from cars to bicycles should produce more free space for the city, not less. Am I missing something?

Possibly the dis-ingenuity of vocal posters? The continuing anti-rational love of the most expensive form of entranched transport?

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#199

Post by getwiththeprog »

k99x55 wrote: post #132
darkamaul wrote: post #63

As a daily biker in Paris (and for years), I think it is hard to grasp the changes Paris has seen in the last years. You now even get to see some congestion on bike lanes (Bd Sebastopol for instance), because they are too many cyclist on an older (and thus too narrow) bike lane. This change, the new subway lanes, and the reduction of car usage in the city make the city much more enjoyable on a day to day basis, espec…

How far outside central Paris does the cycle infra reach? Are the suburbs still very car-centric and/or hostile bicycles?

Good question, and I do not know. However, I suspect that looking at the OpenStreetMap of cycling, there are trunk cycling lines, which feed to lower car density backstreets - so certainly one can cycle the suburbs, but without the excellent ammenities of cycle-lanes on every street over 30km/h like in Holland or Belgium.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#200

Post by getwiththeprog »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #77
mattcantstop wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a problem I desperately hope the US has to encounter soon. Too much demand and we have to accelerate our plans to satisfy all those people on bikes!

US cities should probably first start focusing on pedestrians.

The best way to help pedestrians is to start removing cars.

The best way to do this is to install public transport and facilitate bike use.

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