Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

jacobbartlett.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 302 posts

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#211

Post by CrimsonRain »

npteljes wrote: post #201
zooq_ai wrote: post #23

Your App is successful because you didn't spend time on useless things like a11y, i18n during the p-m-f stage. If you look at every successful product in history, they didn't focus on a11y or i18n right from the bat. Now, that it is successful, you can think about it and spend resources.

Now, this is why I like to see such things regulated with law. Because then a competitor, who spares the effort to care about, say, a11y, doesn't get ahead, but is instead punished. It's not that a11y is a bad consideration, it's that creators are badly incentivized.

no. All it'll do is empower those who are in lead esp the big techs because now a startup has to spend a significant amount of time fighting a11y stuff. There's a reason most (successful) startups are not from Europe. Too much bureaucracy for little ones to innovate.

If you become really big, you get x amount of time to implement a11y. Good enough balance.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#212

Post by coolliquidcode »

dataflow wrote: post #205
coolliquidcode wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should see how ADA requirements are practically impossible or completely break design. The high contrast of font to background requirement is so extreme that most major sites and even ADA related sites fail. Things like alt text is so time consuming it would be incredibly expensive to label all the images. Facebook has long resorted to using AI descriptions. Really it shouldn't be up to the developer it should be…

> The high contrast of font to background requirement is so extreme that most major sites and even ADA related sites fail. What's so wrong with black text on a white background that it's considered extreme?

As you are using a site that is almost black text against a tan/grey background? For most copy I agree with you. But requiring that level of high contrast for titles, informational text, text over images, or some measure of flair so your site stands out a little it's too much of a requirement.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#213

Post by jocoda »

theLiminator wrote: post #61
mikece wrote: post #5

What is the real liability for a scenario like this? Is there any grace period when a new app or startup becomes far more successful far sooner than expected? I imagine A11Y isn't a massive concern when it's not certain an idea will even work; outside of California I can't imagine being legally skewered if, once you attain unexpected success, you devote A11Y resources to address this issue.

Does it apply to someone just releasing an open source app under an app store for free?

I'm curious about this too.

'big' open source projects like blender,etc - what are their responsibilities? A quick look at the site doesn't find much except that it's a work in progress.

What is the responsibility of a single developer with a 'scratch an itch' project on github?

Can I as a developer release something for personal use when it's good enough for my own purposes, but miles away from being accessible?

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#214

Post by freedomben »

sircastor wrote: post #125
stn8188 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man I feel this... My big thing is observing and pointing out how few men's restrooms have diaper changing tables. Some places are awesome with it, or with private family restrooms for this purpose. For the other places... Let's just say that I'm quite used to changing diapers on the seat of the van.

I 100% believe you, but I don't recall ever having this particular problem as a father (my kid was last in a diaper 2 years ago). The worst situation I recall coming across was the changing table mounted to the wall in the entrance space - which was frankly viewable from the outside of the restroom. I understand why they did it. This was at the Minnesota fairgrounds and there was literally no room in that bathroom an…

Yeah, we actually ran into opposite problem a lot, namely that the changing tables were only in the mens restroom. In one organization who I won't name, they were actually very proud of that. I also learned very quickly that this is not something you're allowed to complain about in our current society.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#215

Post by alsetmusic »

huqedato wrote: post #9

I would never agree with this statement of the author: "You won’t stop until everybody is using your app." Why ? All the apps I ever build (or participate in their development) where targeted to the fit the most, without sacrificing the business requirements or other important/critical aspects of the app. Otherwise will end-up with an unusable product.

It’s clearly a cheeky comment to give a sense of levity to the presentation.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#216

Post by asadotzler »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #173
austin-cheney wrote: post #109

The universal good, and unappreciated reality, about accessibility is that it benefits everyone. Wheelchair ramps aren’t limited to wheelchairs. I have above average hearing despite my advancing age and I choose to apply subtitles to digital movies about half the time because it provides me a better more enriching experience. Solving for color contrast limitations benefits everyone even when people have perfect visio…

That’s your experience/opinion but it’s a step too far to claim ADA reqs should be applied universally and are an unalloyed good. For instance, some badly needed housing has routinely been denied because it’s too often impossible to make, say, accessory dwelling units wheelchair friendly. These ADA requirements thus limit supply, in turn raising rents, and causing real harm to younger, poorer people who are without a…

As someone with an architecture, building science and accessibility background I challenge that.

Done well, building new affordable housing with appropriate accessibility does nothing to cut into profit margins for builders. The tax breaks and other pubic dollars almost always deliver more than the cost of ensuring common areas are accessible and a few units have slightly varied doors and bathrooms (mostly.)

That builders don't want to build more affordable housing is its own problem, but not because of ADA requirements. In general, the ADA doesn't say much about low income housing except explicitly government owned and managed housing, BTW. The ADA is overwhelmingly concerned with public accommodations (businesses open to the public) and government and public spaces, not private home construction.)

It's almost exclusively the lower profit margins for price capped construction and not the minimal a11y requirements easily covered for anyone taking public money and who is building affordable housing and not taking government money, that are the root of our affordable housing shortage.

Accessibility is an unalloyed good and your bogus attempt at providing an alternative example is easily shot down. Pick an example you actually know something about and try again.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#217

Post by npteljes »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #211
npteljes wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, this is why I like to see such things regulated with law. Because then a competitor, who spares the effort to care about, say, a11y, doesn't get ahead, but is instead punished. It's not that a11y is a bad consideration, it's that creators are badly incentivized.

no. All it'll do is empower those who are in lead esp the big techs because now a startup has to spend a significant amount of time fighting a11y stuff. There's a reason most (successful) startups are not from Europe. Too much bureaucracy for little ones to innovate. If you become really big, you get x amount of time to implement a11y. Good enough balance.

>If you become really big, you get x amount of time to implement a11y.

What's that if not regulation?

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#218

Post by asadotzler »

SamBorick wrote: post #46

It's amazing how many people in this thread are seriously suggesting that these a11y features are not important. Do HN readers not understand that someday they will grow old, and their eyesight will fail, and they will find themselves increasing the font size on their devices?

No, they don't understand. This isn't a forum of hackers any more, it's a forum of get rich quick capitalists trying to make bank on the latest popular trade. Accessibility is for losers, that's how sociopaths operate and Silicon Valley is a nest of them.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#219

Post by asadotzler »

chacham15 wrote: post #65
SamBorick wrote: post #46

It's amazing how many people in this thread are seriously suggesting that these a11y features are not important. Do HN readers not understand that someday they will grow old, and their eyesight will fail, and they will find themselves increasing the font size on their devices?

Its not that they arent important when looked at by itself, but it just isnt as important as other things. Nobody cares if a car has poor ui if it doesnt actually work. Get it to run first, then make the ui nice. IIRC theres a phrase for this: make it work, make it right, make it fast.

Except you're not getting it to run first any more than the restaurant that opens with a "no blacks" sign got it to run first for whites. You're discriminating, excluding people based on things they have no control over because you couldn't get over your own self absorbed privilege not unlike operators of diners or busses or taxis in the US South 65 years ago.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#220

Post by bitwize »

ryandrake wrote: post #195
madeofpalk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know - I'm always amused at how companies will try all sorts of growth hacks to eke out an extra 1% of DAU or whatever, but won't prioritise building products for human beings.

Companies do all sorts of (IMO insane) things to their apps that reduce their reach. Ignoring accessibility is just one of them. I remember when I was in the app-writing business, and our devs would be constantly trying to bump up the minimum OS version supported. “See here, it says that only 10% of customer devices are on OS version 10.1 and below. We must bump our minimum version to 10.2 because us developers are t…

See also: gating table-stakes features behind "download our app". E.g., messaging on Facebook and LinkedIn.
Post reply on HN