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Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

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Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#101

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #64
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the CDC's website there seems to be an outbreak of e. coli every year, and uncooked greens are a constant: https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/outbreaks.html Washing them doesn't help: https://www.consumerreports.org/e-coli/washing-greens-protec... Could be linked to cows: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/01/unclean-... https://www.verywellhealth.com/lettuce-e-coli-contamination-... On top of all that, root…

> On top of all that, root veggies and leafy greens absorb a lot of toxins Fantastic. I felt really good about myself starting to eat leafy greens consistently this year. There is no escape from the poison.

If you have a 2x2 south-facing outdoor space you can grow a variety of leafy greens in a container, and even stack containers. You can probably grow them indoors too but enough light can be challenging. (There's always grow lights tho)

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#103

Post by voldacar »

JohnMakin wrote: post #4

I struggle to believe that a physician told her to take 5000 IU of vitamin D daily for 5+ years. This is nearly 10x canada's recommended winter time dose for adults under 70. After years of struggling with severe joint pain and mental fog/depression, among other things it was discovered that I had critically low vitamin D. They prescribed the 5000 dose but told me at least 10 times how I should NOT continue this high…

Would you struggle to believe that I took 50k IU daily for over a year with no side effects? Or that others have accidentally taken significantly more than that without issue? With vitamin D, absorption varies a lot between individuals. And the recommended doses that people frequently throw around are generally just a low-ish dose that is guaranteed not to be harmful. This misleads people into thinking that such a dose is the upper bound on the set of non-harmful doses, which is not even remotely true. Honestly I find it shocking that this woman developed hypercalcemia at 5k IU daily, the only explanation for this is that she has an unusually high absorption.

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#104

Post by neuronic »

alejohausner wrote: post #93

This is very confusing! Our skin can make lots of vitamin D. Lots if not more than this case describes. A quick search yields the following: "A whole body exposure to UVB radiation inducing the light pink color of the minimal erythema dose for 15–20 min is able to induce the production of up to 250 μg vitamin D (10,000 IU)"[1] Surely naked homo sapiens got a bigger dose wandering around the highlands of Ethiopia 100,…

When I look through some abstracts on NIH/NCBI, PNAS and so on I feel like there is some regulatory mechanism involved when production happens in the epidermis via UVB.

Maybe the same regulation mechanisms dont apply with oral intake, bringing Vitamin D directly into circulation without any further governance?

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#105

Post by hwillis »

alejohausner wrote: post #93

This is very confusing! Our skin can make lots of vitamin D. Lots if not more than this case describes. A quick search yields the following: "A whole body exposure to UVB radiation inducing the light pink color of the minimal erythema dose for 15–20 min is able to induce the production of up to 250 μg vitamin D (10,000 IU)"[1] Surely naked homo sapiens got a bigger dose wandering around the highlands of Ethiopia 100,…

> "A whole body exposure to UVB radiation inducing the light pink color of the minimal erythema dose for 15–20 min is able to induce the production of up to 250 μg vitamin D (10,000 IU)"[1]

So when you expose someone to light until they get a sunburn, they produce up to 250 ug. 80 ng/ml serum is still equivalent to 400+ ug and that's in the blood alone.

The real issue is that over time that elevation caused calcium levels to rise. That can't happen with light exposure because you adapt to it.

> Surely naked homo sapiens got a bigger dose wandering around the highlands of Ethiopia 100,000 years ago.

Did they? They were black. If the "natural" level of vitamin D was significantly higher than modern levels in white people, current day black Africans would have higher levels than the RDA- they wear shorts and tshirts, so they should still have >50% of prehistoric levels. But in fact if anything people in Africa tend to have lower vitamin D levels than the rest of the world, and certainly much less than eg the US: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1...

On top of that, European-descended people have less efficient calcium utilization due to higher availability. They need more vitamin D to utilize the same amount of calcium, so looking at prehistoric levels is not a great indicator.

> What kind of perverse logic led to setting the RDA to 600 IU daily?

Well for one thing its certainly done with an assumption of daily sunlight exposure, since people don't usually figure that into their diet.

If you want the full logic, you can read the 1116 page book by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. They chose the number: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/13050/chapter/1#xiii

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#106

Post by Izkata »

tiffanyh wrote: post #99
JohnMakin wrote: post #4

I struggle to believe that a physician told her to take 5000 IU of vitamin D daily for 5+ years. This is nearly 10x canada's recommended winter time dose for adults under 70. After years of struggling with severe joint pain and mental fog/depression, among other things it was discovered that I had critically low vitamin D. They prescribed the 5000 dose but told me at least 10 times how I should NOT continue this high…

> I struggle to believe that a physician told her to take 5000 IU Believe it. When one of the most trusted vitamin companys (Nature’s Made) sells a 5000 IU single pill dosage that can be found at any drug or grocery store in the US - it nots surprising that people buy and believe 5000 is ok. https://www.naturemade.com/products/nature-made-extra-streng... If 4000 IU is the max dosage anyone should take, it shouldn’t b…

You missed their 10,000 IU: https://www.naturemade.com/products/vitamin-d3-maximum-stren...

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#107

Post by toxicdevil »

detourdog wrote: post #97
JohnMakin wrote: post #4

I struggle to believe that a physician told her to take 5000 IU of vitamin D daily for 5+ years. This is nearly 10x canada's recommended winter time dose for adults under 70. After years of struggling with severe joint pain and mental fog/depression, among other things it was discovered that I had critically low vitamin D. They prescribed the 5000 dose but told me at least 10 times how I should NOT continue this high…

About 5 years ago I got a new doctor that noticed I had Ricketts level vitamin D. They say in New England everyone has a deficiency but I also spent the previous 15 summers in dark server rooms. My level was 9 on the scale they use and the cutoff level for low level is 31. I have been taking between a 1,000 to 2000 units daily and just this year made it to 31. My doctor looked at my labs on-line and sent message tell…

I had similar levels and my dr prescribed 10000iu (prescription) for a few weeks and then lowered to 3-5000iu (OTC)

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#108

Post by jader201 »

conorh wrote: post #80

This article was written by my wife a while back. It is part of a series she wrote to help people think about Vitamin D. She's actually doing a facebook live presentation (and taking questions) on Vitamin D next month if anyone is interested [1]. She's doing consults all day today and tomorrow but I'll let her know this is here. [1] https://fb.me/e/4WMVAXS9u

I would be interested to hear her responses to a number of the concerns/confusion mentioned below.

It seems like there is a lot of speculation in this area (not just this thread, but previous threads on vitamin D), and not a lot of evidence/studies to back it up.

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#109

Post by toxicdevil »

JohnMakin wrote: post #55
chimeracoder wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yea, the dosage and labeling for sure needs work. I see 2000 IU doses regularly sold in stores and the bottle says you can take 2/day. Obviously no doctor would recommend that for anyone not sick. That is simply not true. Doctors do recommend 2000-4000 IU for healthy patients all the time.

I should clarify by what I obviously meant that doctors would not recommend that as a DAILY dose - daily implying long-term use is okay.

I was prescribed 3-5000 iu daily and then I changed doctors. When I asked about continuing the vitamin the new doctors said "I won't recommend doing a test because almost everyone has low vit d levels, even with daily supplements. Just keep taking the pills. As long as its not a very high dose you should be fine".

My wife has a different doctor who does regular vitamin testing, she was prescribed 5000iu and a year and a half later her tests barely read "normal", still being on the borderline.

Re: Story of Vitamin D Toxicity (2022)

#110

Post by frereubu »

JohnMakin wrote: post #4

I struggle to believe that a physician told her to take 5000 IU of vitamin D daily for 5+ years. This is nearly 10x canada's recommended winter time dose for adults under 70. After years of struggling with severe joint pain and mental fog/depression, among other things it was discovered that I had critically low vitamin D. They prescribed the 5000 dose but told me at least 10 times how I should NOT continue this high…

The NHS in the UK recommends everyone takes vitamin D supplements in autumn and winter, but says "Do not take more than 100 micrograms (4,000 IU) of vitamin D a day as it could be harmful." and talks specifically about the risk of high calcium levels. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-...

This presumably has a lot to do with latitude though - there aren't many months in the UK where I regularly walk around with arms and legs uncovered.

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