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Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

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Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#121

Post by dylan604 »

sircastor wrote: post #57

For the last 12 years of his life, my father was in an electric wheelchair as a result of a stroke. Prior to that, I was vaguely aware of ADA compliance - basically because there were posted signs everywhere about parking spaces and restroom stalls. It was only after seeing the ease with which he could navigate the world in spite of his chair that I appreciated how important that law was, because I also saw so many t…

> Our entire world is built around and for people who see, hear, speak, walk, climb, and crawl.

As a parent, I would disagree with the world is built for those that crawl. New parents are told/suggested to crawl around their house just to get a closer eye-level exprience of what their toddler will have.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#123

Post by bnralt »

austin-cheney wrote: post #109

The universal good, and unappreciated reality, about accessibility is that it benefits everyone. Wheelchair ramps aren’t limited to wheelchairs. I have above average hearing despite my advancing age and I choose to apply subtitles to digital movies about half the time because it provides me a better more enriching experience. Solving for color contrast limitations benefits everyone even when people have perfect visio…

What I dislike about all the comments here saying something similar is that it suggests that empathy only go in one direction. I sometimes run into situations where society isn’t set up for my needs in a particular way (for personal reasons, I won’t go into specific details). But my reaction isn’t “society should do whatever it takes to remove this issue I’m experiencing, no matter the cost.” I know that doing more to improve my personal situation is going to insure a cost that means that others are going to have less of something. None of this is free.

Where that line gets drawn is open for debate, but a lot of comments seem to be livid that people are suggesting the line should be drawn somewhere. Life is about compromise, and trying to do the most with finite resources. Understanding that tradeoffs exist is a basic requirement for creating a functioning society.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#124

Post by godelski »

matsemann wrote: post #86
sircastor wrote: post #57

For the last 12 years of his life, my father was in an electric wheelchair as a result of a stroke. Prior to that, I was vaguely aware of ADA compliance - basically because there were posted signs everywhere about parking spaces and restroom stalls. It was only after seeing the ease with which he could navigate the world in spite of his chair that I appreciated how important that law was, because I also saw so many t…

Tangentially related, but it's a bit interesting to see how many men get "radicalized" after being on paternity leave and pushing a stroller around. I'm volunteering on a board for an organization that (among other things) works for more accessible streets (more from an angle of less car dependence though), and we get lots of new members with this revelation. Suddenly they hate getting from point A to B; "It's just a…

My partner had to use a wheelchair for awhile and it can still be useful (difficulties walking), and boy has it caused a strong desire to just keep a spare bag of concrete and a bucket in my trunk. Or even just metal shims. I've definitely got the same experience of "why is everything so __needlessly__ difficult?" When many could be solved or significantly eased with just a few dollars worth of materials.

> Why do I have to go a long way extra for an elevator?

  - Why did I just walk past 3 flights of stairs on my way to the elevator?
  - Why did the handicap subway car drop me off at the far end of the station? 
  - Why did 3 people rush in front to get to the extra wide gate when there are 5 empty normal gates?
  - Why does the flat moving walkway have a divider that's meant to prevent bikes but also prevents a fucking wheelchair or walker!
The last one really triggers me... I mean I get why they do it but it also feels like a spit in the face (I'm glad they still help old people and those with limited mobility though). But come on....

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#125

Post by sircastor »

stn8188 wrote: post #114
matsemann wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related, but it's a bit interesting to see how many men get "radicalized" after being on paternity leave and pushing a stroller around. I'm volunteering on a board for an organization that (among other things) works for more accessible streets (more from an angle of less car dependence though), and we get lots of new members with this revelation. Suddenly they hate getting from point A to B; "It's just a…

Oh man I feel this... My big thing is observing and pointing out how few men's restrooms have diaper changing tables. Some places are awesome with it, or with private family restrooms for this purpose. For the other places... Let's just say that I'm quite used to changing diapers on the seat of the van.

I 100% believe you, but I don't recall ever having this particular problem as a father (my kid was last in a diaper 2 years ago). The worst situation I recall coming across was the changing table mounted to the wall in the entrance space - which was frankly viewable from the outside of the restroom. I understand why they did it. This was at the Minnesota fairgrounds and there was literally no room in that bathroom any other place. I'm glad I never came across a men's room that wasn't accommodating.

If you're not there yet, the next terror is desperately searching for a bathroom for your kid. It's especially hard in city centers where every place has put code locks on their restrooms "for customers only"... It's fine, I'll buy something, but my kid needs a bathroom right now!

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#126

Post by Finnucane »

saalweachter wrote: post #101
curtisblaine wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it chosen because it reads "ally" in leetspeak? Agree it's not incredibly accessible.

That's probably a factor in its popularity, but it's in the category of "numerical contractions" like i18n [internationalization] or l10n [localization]. Numerical contractions were already very popular in the space of "making things work correctly for more people" [accessibility, localization, internationalization...].

Except that they don't really 'work correctly' in screen readers. They get read out rather awkwardly.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#127

Post by axus »

jnovek wrote: post #30
jtriangle wrote: post #18

>1 in 6 people think your app is broken >16% of people have some kind of accessibility requirement 16% is 4 in 25 people, also no guarantee you'll be able to accommodate their specific accessibility requirement, depending on the app, and depending on the requirement. That's not to say the app shouldn't be accessible, more that, you should think about when you spend the money to implement things like this, and how tha…

As a person who uses accessibility features on his devices, this attitude is why we depend on regulation to ensure that we (disabled people) can do stuff. No company implements accessibility features out of the kindness of their heart.

The theory is that the companies would do it for the +14% growth from users with disabilities, the reality is that they'll spend the effort on other things instead, and that disabled users would suffer through it because they needed to use the website.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#128

Post by mrguyorama »

cogman10 wrote: post #119
austin-cheney wrote: post #109

The universal good, and unappreciated reality, about accessibility is that it benefits everyone. Wheelchair ramps aren’t limited to wheelchairs. I have above average hearing despite my advancing age and I choose to apply subtitles to digital movies about half the time because it provides me a better more enriching experience. Solving for color contrast limitations benefits everyone even when people have perfect visio…

> When they say accessibility is too expensive that’s what they really mean, and it’s not a good argument. Disabilities can be conflicting which makes catering to all difficult. Consider, for example, that someone who is deaf will usually use a flashing light to wake them up. However, if you are someone that's prone to seizures, that flashing light is now something that can trigger a medical emergency. Now consider h…

Notably, none of this matters if you aren't an entitled jerk and make accessibility features an option!!

There's been a new trend in modern videogames to show you a screen with a few accessibility options before the game even finishes starting. I am not disabled, and yet often feel like I benefit from some options or others.

Stop pretending you know better than your customers/users/visitors. Let them make the choices that make your product best for their usages. Stop treating users like children and we stop having these kinds of problems.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#129

Post by sircastor »

dylan604 wrote: post #121
sircastor wrote: post #57

For the last 12 years of his life, my father was in an electric wheelchair as a result of a stroke. Prior to that, I was vaguely aware of ADA compliance - basically because there were posted signs everywhere about parking spaces and restroom stalls. It was only after seeing the ease with which he could navigate the world in spite of his chair that I appreciated how important that law was, because I also saw so many t…

> Our entire world is built around and for people who see, hear, speak, walk, climb, and crawl. As a parent, I would disagree with the world is built for those that crawl. New parents are told/suggested to crawl around their house just to get a closer eye-level exprience of what their toddler will have.

That's a fair point - I was thinking of how many times I've been able to crawl under my desk to get a thing I dropped, or plugged in a cable. But I hadn't thought of it in terms of being limited to crawling.

Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility

#130

Post by rmbyrro »

mrguyorama wrote: post #128
cogman10 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they say accessibility is too expensive that’s what they really mean, and it’s not a good argument. Disabilities can be conflicting which makes catering to all difficult. Consider, for example, that someone who is deaf will usually use a flashing light to wake them up. However, if you are someone that's prone to seizures, that flashing light is now something that can trigger a medical emergency. Now consider h…

Notably, none of this matters if you aren't an entitled jerk and make accessibility features an option !! There's been a new trend in modern videogames to show you a screen with a few accessibility options before the game even finishes starting. I am not disabled, and yet often feel like I benefit from some options or others. Stop pretending you know better than your customers/users/visitors. Let them make the choice…

Hey bro, it's unnecessary to call people jerks. Assume they're ignorant at worse, or really incapable of juggling all plates. Running a small software shop, especially a startup, is extremelly hard and stressful. You're constantly struggling to survive financially. To a lot of folks, this alone already takes up everything they have to give.
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