Your App is successful because you didn't spend time on useless things like a11y, i18n during the p-m-f stage. If you look at every successful product in history, they didn't focus on a11y or i18n right from the bat. Now, that it is successful, you can think about it and spend resources.
Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
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Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#92Nice practical article. Accessibility is really important, but one of my pet peeves is when people call developers lazy for not making apps accessible by default. There really is a lot of concepts to learn, conflicting priorities, and tools to get familiar with, on top of making the business case to do it. Most developers and designers I've worked aren't that familiar with WCAG rules either. By the way, the blue on y…
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#93Why have we settled upon annotating accessibility options onto a visual-first, generally high-precision/high-touch-density medium? Wouldn't it be better to just have a "low vision" version of the app, a "low touch accuracy" version of the app, etc? Then you could provide the accessibility-minded users with something customized to their needs, instead of trying to shoehorn accessibility onto a layout that might have n…
Good luck getting your organization to support building two apps. And even if you succeed once, good luck getting your organization to ship features twice every single time they want to build something. What will end up happening is you have your normal app which isn't accessible, and a second app with a fraction of your features that is likely often broken because it's hard to prioritize.
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#94I couldn't get past the over usage of a11y
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#95Even a lot of phone UXs. The one that really infuriates me is when apps still zoom by sliding your finger up and down on the screen. It sucks as a normal person, it's impossible as a disabled person.
But the things we've noticed, is that essentially the things she struggles with are no different than what older people struggle with. Reduced grip, reduced hand mobility, getting tired more easily, difficulties walking, etc. She's still recovering and we're hopeful she'll keep increasing mobility, but it still gave us insight we'd never have seen without it.
Here's the thing, the world is just fucking complex and nuanced. We're never upset when we hit a piece of friction where we can tell someone was thinking but that the implementation was just incorrect, or where environments disrupt the implementation, or just when things are difficult to accommodate. I have a very "fit it" mindset (and used to be a traditional engineer, so do try to too).[1]
And here's the thing we've also found. Anything that helps us helps the elderly. Anything that helps us ALSO HELPS NORMAL PEOPLE. Most of the issues -- and certainly the most difficult to overcome -- look like they were implemented that way to save a few cents or because they were just rushing. Move fast and break things is a great strategy for getting to learn how something works and get prototypes, but it is not a good strategy for even moderately mature products. So move fast, break things, but make sure you come back and clean up and fix things. It is easy to push off because you're trying to get to the next thing, but I promise you that actually going back and fixing things will make your whole product develop faster. Think about how much of your time is spent rewriting your coworkers' code, or fixing things that should have never been done, or hacking around things (compounding the issue) because you can't directly access the thing you need. A significant amount of this is also reduced. Having a different mentality is needed to think about accessibility but if you focus on thinking deeply and about nuances of issues you'll automatically capture a lot of things that help disabled people too! e.g. the gap in the rail can be motivated for many reasons: things falling in between, people pushing strollers over, rolling bags, etc. If you had thought clearly about any of these issues you would have also helped the person in the wheelchair without having ever thought about them. Making an app more usable for the visually impaired helps normal people see from farther away, when they're sleepy, or hell, even drunk. So you don't need to spend hours thinking about every single possible disability, just think about the nuance of things and think about your tech illiterate family members. If you remember how complex the world is and just keep that in mind (you don't have to address everything!) you will be going above and beyond. The bar is low.
[0] Long story short, my partner had some amputations (we're only a tad over 30) because of a freak accident. Lost a thumb and partial movement in that index finger. Also has foot damage and so walking is hard. But other than that, she looks absolutely normal and strangely, this is problematic. She's been shoved by old people when she's trying to sit on the subway because they think she's just being a lazy young person. Or just realizing how many stairs there are... especially outside the US.
[1] On the other hand, we also get very excited when we see well implemented things. And the joy we get to see how people thought things through, even if it is something that is more helpful to disabilities we (she) doesn't face. Disabled people are well aware that the world isn't made for them, and most people aren't expecting the world to bend to fit them, but of course every person is frustrated when they experience unique frictions (especially when you're going through the shock of change).
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s generally less of a legal liability and more of a reputation thing; as you grow you will get more and more users telling you off. See Wordle for an easy example. Plus, its not that hard to do correctly, so the “we’re a startup on a critical burn rate” stops working as an excuse rather early
While it's generally a good idea to make your app/site accessible to all users and user agents - the trouble usually comes when you're big enough to get sued. In my previous life at an ad agency we had a number of clients getting pursued by accessibility lawyers and firms. These were typically nothing more than shakedowns for some insignificant settlement ( IANAL and my agency didn't do the actual implementation so i…
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#97It's amazing how many people in this thread are seriously suggesting that these a11y features are not important. Do HN readers not understand that someday they will grow old, and their eyesight will fail, and they will find themselves increasing the font size on their devices?
The article starts off with the over-cited and misunderstood 1/6 figure, which comes from the WHO's claim that 1/6 of the world suffers from a "significant disability". I couldn't find a breakdown of what the WHO considers a significant disability in the first place, but the CDC in the US lists the following six disability categories in one of its studies: hearing, vision, cognitive, mobility, self-care, and independent living. How many of these are actually relevant in software? I have never once heard calls to make software more accessible to people with cognitive disabilities, and mobility/self-care/independent living categories are simply irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of software use cases. So no, you're not growing your audience by 1/6 by implementing screen-reader support for your website. If your product is growing, you're better off focusing on internationalization (which, technically, is a form of accessibility, but obviously not the subject of the article).
* Do we really need to abbreviate "accessibility" everywhere? It's just nine more characters than "a11y" and - speaking of accessibility - is more readable!
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#98What is the real liability for a scenario like this? Is there any grace period when a new app or startup becomes far more successful far sooner than expected? I imagine A11Y isn't a massive concern when it's not certain an idea will even work; outside of California I can't imagine being legally skewered if, once you attain unexpected success, you devote A11Y resources to address this issue.
It's going to vary a lot, but one metric that's used by lawyers in finding companies to sue is whether it impedes another protected action. For example, hiring employees has lots of rules and protections, therefore the website where people can look at and apply for your jobs needs to be accessible, especially if there is no other way to apply.
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#99It's amazing how many people in this thread are seriously suggesting that these a11y features are not important. Do HN readers not understand that someday they will grow old, and their eyesight will fail, and they will find themselves increasing the font size on their devices?
Disability accommodations tend to also strongly benefit everyone else. I know this isn't a code thing, but the most useful one I can think of is curb cuts. All of this affects all of us.
https://www.simplemost.com/sidewalk-bumps/?utm_partner=gray_...
Re: Oh shit, my app is successful and I didn't think about accessibility
#100Your App is successful because you didn't spend time on useless things like a11y, i18n during the p-m-f stage. If you look at every successful product in history, they didn't focus on a11y or i18n right from the bat. Now, that it is successful, you can think about it and spend resources.