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Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

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Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#41

Post by rayval »

DanBlake wrote: post #27

As a new landlord in San Francisco, I can tell you that the biggest issue forcing this is rent control. The way rent control works is certainly designed to help those in need but instead it creates a artificial demand for affordable housing. Without rent control, the market is free to compete and suddenly open up a ton of bottled up apartments. The issue is, a family on welfare with a income of 40k a year should not…

This has nothing to do with rent control.

San Francisco is just one part of the Bay Area, and the Bay Area is just one part of California.

The entire state has high real estate prices, despite pockets of low-priced housing (Stockton, for example).

Law of supply and demand: a lot of people don't want to live in freezing Minneapolis or bleak Detroit. Or Mumbai or Monterrey, for that matter.

Rich or poor, they would rather be in place where there is a chance to bask in the sun by the ocean, even if requires an hour or two drive from their gritty neighborhood.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#42

Post by gobbluth »

oscardelben wrote: post #11

I just moved here from Italy, and it's almost impossible for me to get an apartment that's near public transportation. I mean, other than caltrain there's little if nothing public transportation here, and that may be part of the problem too. I certainly can't rent a house in the hills if there's no way for me to get to work from there. I ended up renting from a colleague.

Agreed with you and MJN. The US is in desperate need of investment in public transportation. Europeans have absolutely mastered the art of urban design and public transportation, and I wish we'd learn from their example.

But try telling 99% of the US that 1) their shitty sprawled real estate is effectively worthless, 2) their obese asses will have to give up their cars, and 3) we've spent 70 years of infrastructure investment supporting the dumbest possible lifestyle choice.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#43

Post by Apocryphon »

Androsynth wrote: post #17
DanI-S wrote: post #13

The Bay Area is one of the most beautiful places in the world, and if they turn it into another Los Angeles I will cry. This country is phenomenally huge and there is no reason whatsoever to live clustered together in vile, concrete scabs. Compact cities are more efficient, but congested urban sprawl is most definitely not. Strict building regulations are part of what make this place productive and desirable in the f…

Have you ever been south of Palo Alto? There is not much of a difference between San Jose and LA (I have lived in both). Besides, LA is not ugly because of the population density, but because of the endless sprawl.

How do the two cities resemble each other? SJ seems sleepy and is basically a giant suburb.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#44

Post by dennisgorelik »

DanBlake wrote: post #27

As a new landlord in San Francisco, I can tell you that the biggest issue forcing this is rent control. The way rent control works is certainly designed to help those in need but instead it creates a artificial demand for affordable housing. Without rent control, the market is free to compete and suddenly open up a ton of bottled up apartments. The issue is, a family on welfare with a income of 40k a year should not…

Actually rent control tends to push poor people out, because with rent control landlords are forced to chose between multiple applicants before letting them in. Landlords would clearly prefer to deal with wealthier tenants than with poor tenants.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#45

Post by thrownaway2424 »

DanBlake wrote: post #27

As a new landlord in San Francisco, I can tell you that the biggest issue forcing this is rent control. The way rent control works is certainly designed to help those in need but instead it creates a artificial demand for affordable housing. Without rent control, the market is free to compete and suddenly open up a ton of bottled up apartments. The issue is, a family on welfare with a income of 40k a year should not…

What's your thought on Prop 13? It's hard to imagine why owners should be insulated from tax increases while tenants should not be insulated from rent increases.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#46

Post by dfc »

DanBlake wrote: post #27

As a new landlord in San Francisco, I can tell you that the biggest issue forcing this is rent control. The way rent control works is certainly designed to help those in need but instead it creates a artificial demand for affordable housing. Without rent control, the market is free to compete and suddenly open up a ton of bottled up apartments. The issue is, a family on welfare with a income of 40k a year should not…

The way rent control works is certainly designed to help those in need but instead it creates a artificial demand for affordable housing.

I am having trouble wrapping my head around this quote. How could this be? Do you mean supply? There is always more demand for a good at lower prices than higher prices. If you took rent control away poor people would still want to live in nice places and pay low rent.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#47

Post by mattdeboard »

mjn wrote: post #28
oscardelben wrote: post #11

I just moved here from Italy, and it's almost impossible for me to get an apartment that's near public transportation. I mean, other than caltrain there's little if nothing public transportation here, and that may be part of the problem too. I certainly can't rent a house in the hills if there's no way for me to get to work from there. I ended up renting from a colleague.

Yes, unfortunately the whole area is built on an assumption that you have a car. Santa Clara County in particular is amazing in that it's one of the few places in the world that has three levels of grade-separated freeways: national highways, state highways, and county highways. The latter (San Tomas Expressway, etc.) were paid for out of the money that Santa Clara County saved by opting out of BART, which is not coi…

I'm sorry but after living in Santa Clara Co. for a couple years, then moving back to my home state of Indiana, I can say with absolutely no compunction that Santa Clara Co. is a MECCA compared to where I live now in terms of public transpo.

Maybe it could be a ton better but my god I cannot wait until it's time to move back there.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#48

Post by pwthornton »

Silicon Valley has some of the least progressive views on housing in the country. Limiting people to single family homes, which much of the valley does, is terrible for the environment and drives housing prices up. Space is finite. Building up leads to more affordability, shorter commuters and more creativity (by making it more likely that smart people run into each other).

The issue in the Valley is that there isn't enough housing stock. That's not hard to fix, unless you have too many regulations and nimbys.

Steve Jobs was a genius about a lot of things, except housing and work environments. The new Apple campus is almost laughably stupid. Everything we know about cities and their ability to forward humanity and creativity can't happen in Apple's new campus. It's disconnected from the larger community and sits next to a freeway.

See Triumph of the City as to why density of knowledge workers leaders to more innovation and creativity (or why the Renascence would never happen in rural America).

I bring up Jobs because I think his ideas on housing is common in the area. He loved the suburbs and perhaps the suburbs of the 60s and 70s were nice for a kid growing up. But Apple doesn't employ kids and our country's populations has doubled since 1960 and shows no signs of slowing down.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#49

Post by waterlesscloud »

redditmigrant wrote: post #19
vannevar wrote: post #12

In short, the reason there’s too much money chasing too few businesses isn’t that the country is running out of people with good technology ideas. It’s just that bad housing policies mean that there’s nowhere for additional people to live. Well, you could spend millions and take years to move thousands more engineers to Silicon Valley. Or you could just get on a goddamned airplane and invest your money more than a fe…

I think you are ignoring the fact that Silicon valley is an ecosystem of engineers/product managers/sysadmins etc. all of which a growing startup needs. Hence, while a remote area might have people with ideas, it most likely will not have the eco system to sustain the growth of the startup.

If you have remote workers, you have a very very large ecosystem.

Re: Why the San Francisco Bay Area should have 11 million residents today

#50

Post by bgentry »

rayval wrote: post #41
DanBlake wrote: post #27

As a new landlord in San Francisco, I can tell you that the biggest issue forcing this is rent control. The way rent control works is certainly designed to help those in need but instead it creates a artificial demand for affordable housing. Without rent control, the market is free to compete and suddenly open up a ton of bottled up apartments. The issue is, a family on welfare with a income of 40k a year should not…

This has nothing to do with rent control. San Francisco is just one part of the Bay Area, and the Bay Area is just one part of California. The entire state has high real estate prices, despite pockets of low-priced housing (Stockton, for example). Law of supply and demand: a lot of people don't want to live in freezing Minneapolis or bleak Detroit. Or Mumbai or Monterrey, for that matter. Rich or poor, they would rat…

Stockton hasn't had high real estate prices since 2008 when their market crashed harder than anywhere else in the country.
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