Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#81

Post by diggan » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:35 PM UTC

TacticalCoder wrote: post #64

ryandrake wrote: post #30

I don’t get how you can make bicycling your only form of transportation, even if the bike travel infrastructure and parking is adequate. When I bicycle, even for a short amount of time like 15 minutes, I sweat, and end up a stinky wet mess at my destination. Especially in the summer. My shoes and pants get dirty from the road and my hair gets wet and messed up especially if it’s raining. So if I’m going anywhere with…

> What about going to a restaurant or business meeting or a museum or an appointment with a professional? I also like to find my bicycle where I left it. Which is not an option in many cities. > I honestly don’t know but there are so many cities where people bike everywhere so there must be a solution People have less and less money to spend on a car and fuel/electricity. Many are using bicycles not by choice but bec…

> Many are using bicycles not by choice but because they're broke. And it shows when you see the kind of bicycle they ride.

I'd be careful to assume people's social/financial status based on the bicycle they ride. Where I'm from, you get the cheapest bike possible not because you cannot afford something else, but because eventually it'll get vandalized or stolen, so if you only spent 20 EUR on the bike, it won't hurt as much to replace it with another 20 EUR bike.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#82

Post by boredpeter » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

richrichie wrote: post #24

The second order effect is that tax rates will increase to cater to increase in social security payment and medical care thanks to increased life expectancy. That might also divert money from other public spending that could mean living longer but with lower quality of life.

[dead]

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#83

Post by digging » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

offsign wrote: post #33

Title is misleading... the source Le Monde article states that use of certain bicycle paths has doubled (or tripled) in certain places , as investment has gone into improving these paths. That's great, but kind of obvious that if you build out dedicated bike lanes, cyclists are more likely to prefer them to alternate routes.

> kind of obvious that if you build out dedicated bike lanes, cyclists are more likely to prefer them to alternate routes.

That's not obvious at all; it's not even true. It's not uncommon in US cities to install long, wide bike lanes on major roads which see close to 0 daily users. Significant problems include:

- complete lack of physical barriers between cars and bikes

- bike lanes terminating at dangerous roads

- density is still low and there are dangerous parking lots at every destination

- bike lanes are exposed to direct sunlight in 100F+

- a non-trivial number of American drivers need extremely little push to intentionally hurt or kill bibcyclists

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#84

Post by consp » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

throwup238 wrote: post #47

consp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While its true that compared to 10 years ago cycling is much better served by the infrastructure, there are still large challenges ahead It takes decades (emphases on plural) in most places. Having seen it happen to my hometown from the start of the '90s until about halfway though the '10s as an example. And that was with a head start since in some places it was already done well. And that was in the often mentione…

> And that was in the often mentioned cyclists Valhalla. I’m confused by this analogy. Are cars Valkyries in this case, taking the souls of bikers off to Valhalla?

Probably lost in translation, should have phrased differently. A Valhalla is seen as an alternative phrasing to paradise but probably does not translate well into English and might be a specific cultural thing (and not even Nordic in use, since I'm talking about the Netherlands). It has a bit more "promised land" tone than paradise without the baggage of a large faith behind it.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#85

Post by NegativeLatency » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #30

I don’t get how you can make bicycling your only form of transportation, even if the bike travel infrastructure and parking is adequate. When I bicycle, even for a short amount of time like 15 minutes, I sweat, and end up a stinky wet mess at my destination. Especially in the summer. My shoes and pants get dirty from the road and my hair gets wet and messed up especially if it’s raining. So if I’m going anywhere with…

> shoes and pants get dirty from the road

Most bikes sold in the US are historically not sold or marketed for transportation, they’re aimed at fitness/sport users. So they don’t come with fenders that would keep your pants clean, and racks you could put your bag on.

To keep from getting sweaty you’ll need to intentionally ride slower, again US bikes are not designed for this. The classic Dutch bike has a much more relaxed and comfortable posture that helps remind you not to work too hard.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#86

Post by jahnu » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:38 PM UTC

h1fra wrote: post #19

People not living in Paris can't even grasp how much the city has changed in just 6 years. Starting a bit before 2020 but massively accelerated by the covid situation (and public transport saturation). You could barely cycle safely before and now it's hard to not find a bike lane. Because of the fast pace, of course not everything is perfect but we have to celebrate this as much as we can.

I'm hoping Vienna will learn from this and accelerate things here a bit.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#87

Post by piva00 » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:38 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #30

I don’t get how you can make bicycling your only form of transportation, even if the bike travel infrastructure and parking is adequate. When I bicycle, even for a short amount of time like 15 minutes, I sweat, and end up a stinky wet mess at my destination. Especially in the summer. My shoes and pants get dirty from the road and my hair gets wet and messed up especially if it’s raining. So if I’m going anywhere with…

> EDIT: ok, ok, I guess e-bikes it is. Still there are cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam where everyone bikes everywhere and they don’t all have e-bikes. Do they just bring multiple changes of clothes everywhere?

These cities are almost 100% flat, it doesn't take much effort to bike in a leisure pace anywhere, you won't be sweating if you are riding at 12-15km/h. You don't need changes of clothes to bike as people do there.

I bike in Stockholm, in a longer route these days since I live in a house some 15km away from the city center, it is quite hilly and I ride a fixed gear bike so I do sweat, I do not carry multiple changes of clothes, I have my clothes for riding depending on the season (staples are a wind jacket, wool underlayers due to their good wicking for sweat), carry a small towel with me, clothes I'd like to wear when I arrive at my destination, and wet wipes. If I'm too sweaty I will wait a few minutes until I cool down, use the towel to dry the sweat and the wet wipes in case it's needed.

It takes almost no effort after you are used to the routine, like anything you just adapt to it and becomes the new normal.

The resistance you feel is just the fear of the unknown, it's absolutely doable even in places not as perfect for biking like Denmark, the Netherlands, Berlin, etc., in my case I just love biking and the added routine I might need after biking 15km is totally fine. Others will use an e-bike around here if total practicality is needed.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#88

Post by mikestew » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:38 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #58

random_kris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After biking for some months a 15min ride shouldn't get you too sweaty

Why should that be the case? The amount of sweat is only correlated to the amount of heat generated. Only way to counter sweating is to dress appropriately and/or ride slower.

The amount of sweat is only correlated to the amount of heat generated.

I’m no expert, but that’s demonstrably not true. Evidence being two fit cyclists riding the same route, and one is visibly more sweaty than the other.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#89

Post by bsaul » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:38 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #58

random_kris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After biking for some months a 15min ride shouldn't get you too sweaty

Why should that be the case? The amount of sweat is only correlated to the amount of heat generated. Only way to counter sweating is to dress appropriately and/or ride slower.

People that exercise regularly sweat less for the same amount of effort than when they weren't exercising. I have no idea what the biological / thermodynamics explanation is, but it's a quite basic fact.

Re: Paris cycling numbers double in one year thanks to investment

#90

Post by l1tany11 » Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 3:38 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #58

random_kris wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After biking for some months a 15min ride shouldn't get you too sweaty

Why should that be the case? The amount of sweat is only correlated to the amount of heat generated. Only way to counter sweating is to dress appropriately and/or ride slower.

Cycling economy increases naturally with increased fitness. As with virtually all forms of fitness training. It along with many other factors is why someone can quadruple their possible power output with training. All without melting. Look up cycling economy.

Also how much you sweat is a trained response. This is why athletes do heat training before hot events. There is more to it than some oversimplified physics based equation. It’s a biological system.

All these things are much more significant when going from someone who basically never cycles or exercises, to someone who does. It is less significant in pros, so keep that in mind if you are looking at studies of “trained cyclists”. Law of diminishing returns.