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Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

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Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#21

Post by vagrantJin »

jeffbee wrote: post #9
wongarsu wrote: post #3

Software trying to update when it is started is such a common pattern, despite almost always going against user intent. When I start software, that's because I want to use it. It's pretty high on the list of times I don't want it to become temporarily unusable while it updates itself. Doing the same with vehicle firmware is a sad but predictable state of things.

I can think of several devices I own that never do this. 1) My LG webOS TV. Somehow it always does its thing in the dark. OS and application updates have never been visible to me. 2) My car. Even though it can update over wifi, and by other means, it never tries to do it unbidden. You have to invoke its maintenance mode, at the time of your own choosing, if ever. 3) Google/Nest Wifi, OnHub, et cetera. Always up-to-da…

how do car auto updates work?

I would inclined to believe that maybe the manufacturer sends out an email or sms to notify you of am update and then you choose the time, while also being given a change log of what exactly is being updated.

otherwise what would prevent a bogus server asking for an update you have no idea about and installing something malicious and - whoopsie daisy - your car grows legs and disappears?

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#22

Post by thesuitonym »

jeffbee wrote: post #9
wongarsu wrote: post #3

Software trying to update when it is started is such a common pattern, despite almost always going against user intent. When I start software, that's because I want to use it. It's pretty high on the list of times I don't want it to become temporarily unusable while it updates itself. Doing the same with vehicle firmware is a sad but predictable state of things.

I can think of several devices I own that never do this. 1) My LG webOS TV. Somehow it always does its thing in the dark. OS and application updates have never been visible to me. 2) My car. Even though it can update over wifi, and by other means, it never tries to do it unbidden. You have to invoke its maintenance mode, at the time of your own choosing, if ever. 3) Google/Nest Wifi, OnHub, et cetera. Always up-to-da…

You probably turn your TV and Nest on less than once per year. It's much easier for always on devices to update when they're not in use than an item like a scooter, which when it's off, it's actually off.

That said, I don't know why you would ever connect a transportation device to the internet. All of my vehicles are too old to connect to the internet, but when I finally have to replace them, the first thing I'll do is physically remove the Wi-Fi/cellular antenna

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#23

Post by smallmancontrov »

leros wrote: post #11

This reminds me of a friend who missed a dinner date because his Tesla update took way longer than usual.

Holy shit, that's a real thing and not just a meme? They don't let you cancel the update because you need your car to get you from point A to point B?

That's, uhhh, really bad.

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#25

Post by thfuran »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #14
wongarsu wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has gotten pretty good at staying out of your way with updates if you have typical usage patterns. That is: either you turn it on at the beginning of the business day, it downloads updates in the background and installs them when you shut the machine down at the end of the day; Or you leave the machine on 24/7, get a couple prompts over multiple days about a scheduled restart with the option to schedule it, a…

Updates on shutdown make sense in some of my machines but are awful in the laptop I use to teach classes. When I finish a class, what I want is to leave to do something else elsewhere (often another class in a different room). I know I could probably suspend or something, but I never do that because it used to be a lottery on Windows whether your machine would actually unsuspend or you would need to fight it pressing…

That sounds like a problem from twenty years ago.

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#26

Post by jeffbee »

vagrantJin wrote: post #21
jeffbee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of several devices I own that never do this. 1) My LG webOS TV. Somehow it always does its thing in the dark. OS and application updates have never been visible to me. 2) My car. Even though it can update over wifi, and by other means, it never tries to do it unbidden. You have to invoke its maintenance mode, at the time of your own choosing, if ever. 3) Google/Nest Wifi, OnHub, et cetera. Always up-to-da…

how do car auto updates work? I would inclined to believe that maybe the manufacturer sends out an email or sms to notify you of am update and then you choose the time, while also being given a change log of what exactly is being updated. otherwise what would prevent a bogus server asking for an update you have no idea about and installing something malicious and - whoopsie daisy - your car grows legs and disappears?

Yes, I have a proper car from a real car company. They shipped working software the first time and "updates" are actually recalls for which the owner is notified, at the time of annual service for minor issues, or by mail for major issues.

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#27

Post by leros »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #23
leros wrote: post #11

This reminds me of a friend who missed a dinner date because his Tesla update took way longer than usual.

Holy shit, that's a real thing and not just a meme? They don't let you cancel the update because you need your car to get you from point A to point B? That's, uhhh, really bad.

I'm not sure. I would hope they let you cancel the update. It's entirely possible my friend is an idiot.

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#28

Post by rjsw »

wongarsu wrote: post #3

Software trying to update when it is started is such a common pattern, despite almost always going against user intent. When I start software, that's because I want to use it. It's pretty high on the list of times I don't want it to become temporarily unusable while it updates itself. Doing the same with vehicle firmware is a sad but predictable state of things.

Zoom asks if you want to update after a call, which seems the best time for it to me.

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#29

Post by 082349872349872 »

wongarsu wrote: post #3

Software trying to update when it is started is such a common pattern, despite almost always going against user intent. When I start software, that's because I want to use it. It's pretty high on the list of times I don't want it to become temporarily unusable while it updates itself. Doing the same with vehicle firmware is a sad but predictable state of things.

Somewhere I saw an observation that the SF trope of "humans discover ancient technology, attempt to use it, hilarity ensues" fails suspension of disbelief for contemporary audiences, because we all know that right after the protagonists discover the ancient alien tech and switch it on, it'd be bricked for a good part of the next decade trying to retrieve and apply patches dating to when the Myriapoda first walked on dry land...

    Last update applied at z=???
    Looking for updates...
    Update server found [Alpha Centauri C]
    Retrieving updates... 0% of ??? YB

Re: Running late for college, and the scooter is stuck in an update

#30

Post by jeffbee »

thesuitonym wrote: post #22
jeffbee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of several devices I own that never do this. 1) My LG webOS TV. Somehow it always does its thing in the dark. OS and application updates have never been visible to me. 2) My car. Even though it can update over wifi, and by other means, it never tries to do it unbidden. You have to invoke its maintenance mode, at the time of your own choosing, if ever. 3) Google/Nest Wifi, OnHub, et cetera. Always up-to-da…

You probably turn your TV and Nest on less than once per year. It's much easier for always on devices to update when they're not in use than an item like a scooter, which when it's off, it's actually off. That said, I don't know why you would ever connect a transportation device to the internet. All of my vehicles are too old to connect to the internet, but when I finally have to replace them, the first thing I'll do…

One pretty understandable reason for a transportation device to update itself is for new GPS ephemeris data. I think it would be cool if there was a device protocol that somehow securely promulgated such data from devices that are expected to be well-connected, like your smartphone, to "things" that are not, like watches and cameras and scooters.
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