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Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

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Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#11

Post by IggleSniggle »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

I've been using computers since I was about 12...long time ago. What I've come to the conclusion is this: the best programs and the best tools are the ones that are lovingly (and perhaps with a bit of hate too) crafted by their developers. The best software ecosystems are the ones that are developed slowly and with care. AI coding seems all wrong compared to that world. In fact, the only reason why there is a push fo…

On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, you could make similar arguments for the typewriter, the printing press, or the wheel.

Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#12

Post by vouaobrasil »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #11
vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

I've been using computers since I was about 12...long time ago. What I've come to the conclusion is this: the best programs and the best tools are the ones that are lovingly (and perhaps with a bit of hate too) crafted by their developers. The best software ecosystems are the ones that are developed slowly and with care. AI coding seems all wrong compared to that world. In fact, the only reason why there is a push fo…

On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, you could make similar arguments for the typewriter, the printing press, or the wheel.

Nope, there is a fundamental difference that people who point out this analogy ALWAYS fail to acknowledge: AI is a mechanism to replace people at work that is largely considered creative. Yes, AI may not be truly creative, but it does replace people doing jobs, and those people feel they are doing something creative.

The typewriter, the printing press, the wheel, never did anything of the sort.

And, you're also ignoring speed and scale: AI develops much faster and changes the world much faster than those inventions did.

Your argument is akin to arguing that driving at 200km/h is safe, simply because 20km/h is safe. The wheel was much safer because it changed the world at 20km/h. AI is like 1000km/h.

Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#14

Post by squigz »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

I've been using computers since I was about 12...long time ago. What I've come to the conclusion is this: the best programs and the best tools are the ones that are lovingly (and perhaps with a bit of hate too) crafted by their developers. The best software ecosystems are the ones that are developed slowly and with care. AI coding seems all wrong compared to that world. In fact, the only reason why there is a push fo…

> AI seems antithetical to the hacker ethic

Don't make the mistake I do and think HN is populated predominantly by that type of hacker. This is, at the end of the day, a board for startups.

(Not to say none frequent this board, but they seem relatively rare these days)

Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#16

Post by couchand »

dartos wrote: post #6
chrisjj wrote: post #2

> the main argument against automating these tasks was that machines can’t think creatively. Now this argument gets weaker by the day. Citation needed.

I mean it’s definitely a weaker argument than 2 years ago. AI may very well plateau, but it might not.

> I mean it’s definitely a weaker argument than 2 years ago.

Is it? I see no evidence that machines are any closer to "thinking creatively" than they ever have been. We certainly have been developing our capacity for computation to a great extent, but it's not at all evident that statistical methods and creativity are the same thing.

Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#17

Post by IggleSniggle »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #12
IggleSniggle wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, you could make similar arguments for the typewriter, the printing press, or the wheel.

Nope, there is a fundamental difference that people who point out this analogy ALWAYS fail to acknowledge: AI is a mechanism to replace people at work that is largely considered creative. Yes, AI may not be truly creative, but it does replace people doing jobs, and those people feel they are doing something creative. The typewriter, the printing press, the wheel, never did anything of the sort. And, you're also ignor…

I absolutely disagree regarding handwriting, and maybe also on maintaining your own typewriter. The task of producing the written document, and I don't just mean the thoughts conveyed, but each stroke of each letter, was a creative act that many enjoyed. Increasingly, there is only a very small subset of enthusiasts that are "serious" about writing by hand. Most "normal" people don't see the value in it, because if you're getting the idea across, who cares? But I'd wager if you talked to a monk who had spent their life slaving away in a too dark room making reproductions of books OR writing new accounts, and showed them the printing press, they would lament that the human joy of putting those thoughts to paper was in and of itself approaching the divine, and an important aspect of what makes us human.

Of course I don't think you need to go that far back; the main thing that differentiates pre and post printing press is that post printing press, the emphasis is increasingly more on the value of the idea, and less on the act of putting it down.

Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#18

Post by paulryanrogers »

kovezd wrote: post #15

Folks see it wrong. Is not about human vs machine software development. Is about allocating the brightest humans to the most productive activities.

Keep in mind there are many more humans that aren't as bright. If there are fewer and fewer ways for them to contribute then they'll find other ways to get what they need.

Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#19

Post by alatriste »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #10

I've been using computers since I was about 12...long time ago. What I've come to the conclusion is this: the best programs and the best tools are the ones that are lovingly (and perhaps with a bit of hate too) crafted by their developers. The best software ecosystems are the ones that are developed slowly and with care. AI coding seems all wrong compared to that world. In fact, the only reason why there is a push fo…

I remember when people used to say similar things about using ASM, and then about the craft of writing things in C instead of managed languages like Java.

At the end of the day most people will only care about how the tool is solving the problem and how cheaply. A cheap, slow, dirty solution today tends to win over a expensive, quick, elegant one next year.

Now there are still some people writing ASM, and a lot of them as a hobby. Maybe in a few years writing code from scratch will be seen in the same way, something very few people have to do in restricted situations, or as a pastime.

Re: Thoughts on the Future of Software Development

#20

Post by vouaobrasil »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #17
vouaobrasil wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, there is a fundamental difference that people who point out this analogy ALWAYS fail to acknowledge: AI is a mechanism to replace people at work that is largely considered creative. Yes, AI may not be truly creative, but it does replace people doing jobs, and those people feel they are doing something creative. The typewriter, the printing press, the wheel, never did anything of the sort. And, you're also ignor…

I absolutely disagree regarding handwriting, and maybe also on maintaining your own typewriter. The task of producing the written document, and I don't just mean the thoughts conveyed, but each stroke of each letter , was a creative act that many enjoyed. Increasingly, there is only a very small subset of enthusiasts that are "serious" about writing by hand. Most "normal" people don't see the value in it, because if…

I agree with you, it's true. I guess I should have been more precise in saying that AI takes away a much greater proportion of creative work. But of course, horse driving, handwriting, and other such things still involved a level of creativity in them, which is why in turn I am against most technology, especially when its use is unrestricted and unmoderated.
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