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How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

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Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#561

Post by ferbivore »

n_ary wrote: post #444
bboygravity wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you do use a standard browser, companies will force you to use an app by making there website broken (on purpose?). Random recent example: Nike. Popping useless errors upon checkout in the webshop. Support: "oh, we're so sorry, just try the app, k bye". Another example of major companies with broken websites more often than not: (European) airline booking websites. And major companies think this is totally fi…

I can show some forgiveness to airlines, because they simply outsource it to some agency somewhere. But I have zero sympathy for giants, like Slack. If I do a "Request the Desktop Site", then it suddenly works(albeit with lot of scrolling) on my Firefox(iOS), but if I disable the "Request the Desktop Site", then it blocks everything and forces me to download the app from AppStore. Sadly, the downloaded app looks like…

That seems backwards to me. Airlines are far more important than Slack, which is why they are regulated and Slack is not. They deserve no forgiveness for denying you service if you use an ad blocker, making you jump through ridiculous hoops to get a good recaptcha score, rejecting transactions so you have to re-buy a at higher price, or any other kind of easily fixable accessibility offence.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#562

Post by kome »

zer00eyz wrote: post #156
kome wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2014) is my only computer. I still don't feel like changing it so far...

My air isnt that old, and I'm eyeing a new one... I find that a lot of my work is "remote" at this point. Im doing most things on Servers, VM's, and containers on other boxes. The few apps that I do run locally are suffering (browser being the big offender). Is most of what you're doing remote? Do you have a decent amount of ram in that air?

no, most of the work i do is local, but it's fairly easy stuff, some statistical software, excel, word, browser. And my browser is not suffering that much, perhaps because i have 8GB of ram, and i visit simple websites. Using an adblocker is fundamental tho.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#563

Post by aembleton »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #503
orangevelcro wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what the tracking stuff is supposed to track? Measure things like how 'annoyed' people get by bounce rate and whatever other relevant metrics.

Yes, but how do you determin the actual reason for a bounce? The test would need to have all the same starting conditions and then let some users have a better performing version or something like that. But at that point one would probably rollout the better performing version anyway. Maybe artificially worsen the performance and observe how the metrics change. And then it is questionable, whether the same amount by…

Add a 500ms delay for group A and compare to group B who don't have the delay. After a week of this compare the sales figures.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#564

Post by [deleted] »

dazc wrote: post #461
john61 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually bad web software correlates with bad content. Therefore having a slow device is an excellent filter helping to avoid garbage.

A friend of mine who was a barber asked me how much it would cost to build him a website and I said I would do him a basic 3 page site for free, although he would need to let me know if his opening hours had changed or he needed to tell customers he was on holiday, etc. He said, with no irony whatsoever, that he didn't realise it would be so complicated and decided not to take me up on the offer. I suspect this attit…

[deleted]

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#565

Post by aembleton »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #450
porcoda wrote: post #313

I like how most people blame bosses or scary big companies. No developers appear willing to admit that there is a large cohort of not that great web programmers who don’t know much (and appear to not WANT to know much) about efficiency. They’re just as to blame for the sad world of web software as the big boss or corporate overlord that forced someone to make bad software.

we need some html tag or attribute for slow network detection. instead of this nasty js feature detection that 99% of time no one does. prefers reduce motion was a good start. although its rarely respected.

Should be easy enough for the server to detect when the connection is slow. That could be done now without having to update the clients and give them more things to process.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#566

Post by gcanyon »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #557
gcanyon wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use ublock origin, and on literally more than one occasion (insert doofenshmirtz nickel quote) I've found a site that I quite like, think it's awesome to the point I actually write to the people who create it with suggestions, and then for whatever reason happen to load it without blockers and discover it's halfway useless with all the ads on it. I fully support people being able to make some money off the useful t…

> (insert doofenshmirtz nickel quote) I had to Google for it: IMDB.com has the quote: > Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz : Wow, if I had a nickel for every time I was doomed by a puppet, I'd have two nickels - which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

I thought about including the whole thing, but then I decided that doofenshmirtz being as google-able as it is, anyone who was curious could easily find it.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#567

Post by aembleton »

lannisterstark wrote: post #532
freddie_mercury wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, a user with a data plan with a monthly limit in the single-digit GBs I live in a poor Southeast Asian country. People with small data plans don't use data from efficient websites, they use wifi which is omnipresent. 30GB of data on a monthly plan is $3.64. Which is about 4-6 hours of minimum wage (minimum wage is lower in agricultural areas). But more to the point, people don't use data profligately li…

eh, idk. This is your anecdotal experience, there are others (like me) who have different ones >It honestly sounds like a made up concern from people who've never actually lived in a developing country. I once loaded a site that loaded approx 324mb "Super resolution" image (I knew it was high res, but I thought it was like 30-40 mb at best). Took care of 1/3rd of my monthly data in a single page load.

A useful feature of uBlockOrigin is being able to block all media elements larger than a given amount such as 50KB. Wish I could set it to only do this on mobile networks and let wifi stay unlimited.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#568

Post by mattl »

nottorp wrote: post #559
mattl wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so but I also test things in a variety of browsers and devices frequently to try and avoid the problems described in the article.

That's great. But you just assumed that someone who uses these low end devices has heard of a raspberry pi, can afford one and even has wired internet to plug it into.

I was responding to someone with a recent example of a slower Android phone. I know many Linux and Android users who already have Raspberry Pi’s and similar devices they could use to set up a pihole. People who go down the “fully free” Linux path or even are using more experimental hardware have the same issues.

Pihole can (I assume) also work on WiFi too.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#569

Post by jwells89 »

account42 wrote: post #558
jwells89 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In these situations what’s eating up your resources usually isn’t the data being represented but instead the representation. This is why native apps use recycler views for not just infinite scroll, but anything that can display more rows/columns/items/etc than can fit on screen at once. Recycler views only create just enough cells to fill the screen even if you have tens of thousands of items to represent, and when y…

These suck donkey balls because they break searching for keywords on the page.

Which is another reason why an HTML-native recycler is desirable. The browser could be easily avoid this is issue if it were the one to implement the recycler, rather than it being a third-party bolt-on.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#570

Post by aembleton »

MiddleEndian wrote: post #197
ryukoposting wrote: post #5

I only recently moved from a 6-year old LG flagship phone to a shiny new Galaxy, and the performance difference is staggering. It shouldn't be - that was a very high-end phone at release, it's not that old, and it still works like new. I know it's not just my phone, because the Galaxy S9s I use to test code have the same struggles. I would like to have seen Amazon in the tests. IME Amazon's website is among the absol…

I have a Palm Phone. I generally consider web browsing to be almost impossible no it at this point lol

Are you able to change the DNS on it to NextDNS or LibreDNS: https://libredns.gr/

Blocking ads and trackers might help you to browse the web.

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