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Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#21

Post by lazyasciiart »

roenxi wrote: post #13
FredrikMeyer wrote: post #7

I find this article quite insubstantial. He lists alternative sleeping positions, but no sources backing up the claim that "western sleeping positions" (whatever that is) are worse. Also only one citation, and that is to back up the claim that there are 200 primates. Nice pictures though - I feel happy that I can sit (relatively) comfortably in the squatting position (as an European).

This appears to be a journal article. Why should it have citations? This is an arena where people are supposed to be doing primary research. "I have a PhD and this is my opinion" is probably at least 20% of academics.

Primary research does not include simply stating “this is my opinion” - and this article also does not consist of someone stating their opinion, it is someone claiming to describe widespread behaviors and explanations for them.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#22

Post by twowatches »

arketyp wrote: post #11
jiggawatts wrote: post #4

Is this considered unusual? I’ve used minor variations of all of these except the sleeping on the shins posture, and I’m from Europe, not some African tribe.

I very predictably have nightmares whenever I fall asleep flat on my back, sleep paralysis kind of things. In Germanic mythology the mare is a demon who sits on your chest, so my conclusion is that I'm not alone in this.

I can't understand how anyone can sleep on their back. They snore and can't breathe it's like they're dying it's pretty obviously wrong.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#23

Post by RamblingCTO »

NalNezumi wrote: post #16
FredrikMeyer wrote: post #7

I find this article quite insubstantial. He lists alternative sleeping positions, but no sources backing up the claim that "western sleeping positions" (whatever that is) are worse. Also only one citation, and that is to back up the claim that there are 200 primates. Nice pictures though - I feel happy that I can sit (relatively) comfortably in the squatting position (as an European).

I don't think it's fair to outright dismiss it because it is not a systematic/empirical study (and the author explicitly mention that). In the case of posture, stretching & training I think there's several exercises out there that doesn't have a rigorous empirical study to back it up, yet can be explained to be good/bad from our anatomical understanding of the human body.

> I don't think it's fair to outright dismiss it because it is not a systematic/empirical study

That's how science works. Show sources/data/experiments or gtfo

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#24

Post by awongh »

It’s crazy to think about how little we actually know about how the human body functions- not even to say what an “optimal” sleep position might be, but even a high quality study on how different sleep positions might affect the physiology of the body. I have yet to find any real serious scientific analysis of this.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#25

Post by kijin »

looping8 wrote: post #14
FredrikMeyer wrote: post #7

I find this article quite insubstantial. He lists alternative sleeping positions, but no sources backing up the claim that "western sleeping positions" (whatever that is) are worse. Also only one citation, and that is to back up the claim that there are 200 primates. Nice pictures though - I feel happy that I can sit (relatively) comfortably in the squatting position (as an European).

It also feels a little strange in writing. Examples: "Figure Figure11 shows a mountain gorilla lying on the ground on his side without a pillow" - Of course it is without a pillow, it's a mountain gorilla! What is this clarification? "To start with, some Westerners have to hold on to a doorframe." - Would it not be better to say "you may have to hold on" or "newbies"? It is not like Westerners have some special physi…

A pillow doesn't need to be a factory-made product that you buy at a store. Plenty of humans make pillows out of natural objects when sleeping outdoors. I can totally imagine a mountain gorilla using a chunk of wood, or even a body part of another gorilla, as a "pillow" if it makes them feel more comfortable.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#26

Post by roenxi »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #23
NalNezumi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to outright dismiss it because it is not a systematic/empirical study (and the author explicitly mention that). In the case of posture, stretching & training I think there's several exercises out there that doesn't have a rigorous empirical study to back it up, yet can be explained to be good/bad from our anatomical understanding of the human body.

> I don't think it's fair to outright dismiss it because it is not a systematic/empirical study That's how science works. Show sources/data/experiments or gtfo

Science requires a level of common sense and intuition. Famously: https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094

It is fine, indeed should be encouraged, to put some papers in the system that don't have formal data but do record common-sense observations. If people don't like them, then they can trump opinion with data in the scientific process.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#27

Post by 0xEF »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #23
NalNezumi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to outright dismiss it because it is not a systematic/empirical study (and the author explicitly mention that). In the case of posture, stretching & training I think there's several exercises out there that doesn't have a rigorous empirical study to back it up, yet can be explained to be good/bad from our anatomical understanding of the human body.

> I don't think it's fair to outright dismiss it because it is not a systematic/empirical study That's how science works. Show sources/data/experiments or gtfo

Don't forget the "repeat" part. Sources and data are great, but if they can't be replicated by others, the it's not verifiable.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#28

Post by agos »

twowatches wrote: post #22
arketyp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very predictably have nightmares whenever I fall asleep flat on my back, sleep paralysis kind of things. In Germanic mythology the mare is a demon who sits on your chest, so my conclusion is that I'm not alone in this.

I can't understand how anyone can sleep on their back. They snore and can't breathe it's like they're dying it's pretty obviously wrong.

not everybody who sleeps on their back snores and can't breathe?

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#29

Post by saberience »

twowatches wrote: post #22
arketyp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very predictably have nightmares whenever I fall asleep flat on my back, sleep paralysis kind of things. In Germanic mythology the mare is a demon who sits on your chest, so my conclusion is that I'm not alone in this.

I can't understand how anyone can sleep on their back. They snore and can't breathe it's like they're dying it's pretty obviously wrong.

Surprise, surprise, people are different to each other. I pretty much can only sleep on my back, no other positions allow me to fall asleep. Also, I don’t snore.

But I’m also very much in shape with no excess weight, snoring is generally correlated with ill health and being overweight.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#30

Post by tetris11 »

flurb wrote: post #5

When I was 16, I inherited a bit of money. Not a large sum at all, but enough so that I could afford a new bed, a bookshelf and some nick-nacks from my local furniture store. Being 16, I didn't exactly put much thought into how kind my new mattress would be to my back down the line, and so I managed to find the firmest mattress known to man. At first, it was hard to sleep on, but I'm lazy, and so I kept it. That was…

When I was 28 at my peak fitness days, I opted for a firm mattress believing it would strengthen me as I got used to it.

I never got used it. The slightest sound from outside would wake me. Sleeping on the side was a daily chore. I learned to sleep on my back and snore like a lion.

Switched recently a soft mattress with shoulder support. Sleep on my side like a baby.

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