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Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

bloomberg.com

321–330 of 615 posts

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an adult if you can't weather a couple of weeks of unemployment you've seriously screwed up somewhere Only 64% of Americans could cover an expected bill of $400. https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2021-economic-we...

Indeed. More than 36% of Americans are clinically obese. There are a _lot_ of really short sighted people out there.

That's due to poverty... calorie dense, highly processed food is cheap as hell due to mass production efficiencies, but high quality food? Groceries? Ain't no one got the money for that, or they live in "food deserts" [1].

For poor kids, it's even worse, because all they have other than sub-par school lunches is whatever microwave meal their parents can afford not just financially but also time-wise. Cooking for a family takes time and energy, both scarce when you gotta work two jobs to make ends meet.

[1] https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#322

> There are four full-service car washes in town, with a fifth on the way; three are bunched up on a mile-and-a-half stretch of Route 14. Social media complaints about car wash overkill spurred town leaders to take action. Four (or even five) doesn't sound that much? What's the actual problem here? How is a local politican supposed to determine what is the correct density of any particular type of service within her…

I'm in south Orange county, California, and... Yeah. Maybe this is car wash mecca? I can think of 6 within a 2 mile radius of my home without even trying. 3 of them are full-service places, too, and they've been there for longer than I've been here (2016, so not that long) and they're always serving cars.

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#323
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So my main concern related to destruction of natural land is that there is a disincentive to keep land natural if you have to pay the tax anyway. There’s no need to limit land value taxes based on density as that’s what’s giving land its value. With the property if the tax is say 0.2%. An acre of farmland worth in rural Idaho worth 20k would be assessed as being worth 20k in a land value tax and an acre of swamp mi…

> The farmland’s 40$/year in taxes isn’t pushing anyone to sell I don't think that's an easy assumption to make. Cost of living, average income, and average plot size are very different in rural areas. I don't know Idaho so I can't speak to land value there, but I can say farmable land in rural Alabama goes for between $1k and $6k per acre depending on the land. If you really want to farm it for anything more than a…

For land assessment, many countries or municipalities assess it regularly. In my country (New Zealand), most city councils re-assess land value and improvements value every three years (and charge council rates based on them).

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dusty car body is no more "filthy" than the soles of your shoes. Do you wash your shoe soles?

It doesn't get merely dusty unless you live somewhere very dry. I live in the PNW and it rains a good portion of the year. The car gets absolutely filthy during the rainy season. If my shoes were that dirty, then heck yeah I would clean them. What a mess, it's easy to get your clothes dirty when the outside of your car is filthy. My kid's white dobok is especially sensitive to dirt on the car.

Yeah, it's probably a regional thing. Here in Colorado, most cars don't really get that gross. I take a hose to mine like 3 times a year and dry it with a towel and it looks pretty nearly pristine. They'll only get very dusty if you take them on dirt roads a lot, or keep them in a garage all the time without ever cleaning them. Ones kept outside will keep mostly clean due to the rain, with maybe a little bit of grime under overhangs, and some sun damage on the paint.

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for all the details! Limiting a land value tax to densely populated areas is a great detail here. Sorry if I end up with a long list of follow-up questions here, this is really interesting. So my main concern related to destruction of natural land is that there is a disincentive to keep land natural if you have to pay the tax anyway. In dense areas that wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue, but it would stil…

On the parks/“natural land”: would you rather land exist as an empty razed dirt field for speculators to wait to sell, or given back to the city? Taxing the land value means there’s no incentive to own land that won’t be productive. The city or municipality can guarantee land it owns can have natural growth on it, whereas when private individuals own it the state can’t really stop the land from transforming into a pa…

> On the parks/“natural land”: would you rather land exist as an empty razed dirt field for speculators to wait to sell, or given back to the city?

That seems to be jumping to an extreme end, that someone owns an empty plot of land that has been cleared and destroyed to bare, dead dirt. My concern is that the same incentive pushing one to sell a pile of dirt would exist for someone owning an undeveloped, natural plot of land. My earlier caveat still exists, maybe this isn't a concern in dense areas though it would add some blockers for anyone interested in turning developed land back into a park.

> Taxing the land value means there’s no incentive to own land that won’t be productive.

One concern I have is the expectation that all land should be optimized for productivity. That goes against my own view on land, I don't think we humans have some innate right yo extract all available value. I also don't like that this likely goes against concerns of environmental impact.

> The city or municipality can guarantee land it owns can have natural growth on it

I can't quite put my finger on a better way to describe this, but it just feels off to me that only the state would be able to allocate land as parks, natural space, sanctuary, etc. Obviously what you are proposing wouldn't block anyone from doing this, but it would create incentives that make it unlikely.

> As to how to value the land: the market decides.

The market only decides on my land's value when I sell it. Until then, is the land valued at what I paid for it? If so that is at least predictable I suppose, that would be helpful so I know what my future tax burden would be.

> The government can charge for services like upgraded electricity and keep the land value low, or they can bring the electricity to the land and count “lots of electricity available” as part of the value of the unimproved land.

I wasn't just asking about how enough power gets to the land - not sure why the government would be responsible for that unless government and industry merge. I was meaning to ask with regards to the environmental impact angle. Taxing to create incentives to build as high-value improvements as possible would inevitably lead to a drastic increase in a locality's energy requirements. Where does it come from, and how do mitigate the environmental impact?

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#326

I really hate sounding like a broken record but this is just another instance of how low property taxes and the absence of land value taxes massively benefits low-value businesses. The real business of car washes is real estate, it's profitable enough to get 3-4x leverage with a low interest loan. TBH I think real estate used to have high information asymmetry between local residents and large investors; low property…

When you see a solution here of higher property taxes, is it focused on the raw land value or on the value of "improvements?" I've never been a fan of taxing the value of raw land, mainly because it creates incentives for destroying natural land and extracting as much value as possible from the space. Taxing structures based on the expected economic value can make sense, though even then if its a business there are m…

To be honest, I think you have it exactly backwards, and a land value tax isn't about taxing "raw land" (that is, land with no improvements), it's about taxing the value of the land without regard to improvements.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#327
According to several sources, car washes seem highly likely to damage the car, and are also usually unnecessary (the car works fine even if dirty, unless visibility is seriously impaired, and eventually it rains and the rain automatically washes the car if you park it outside).

Probably a lot of people are conditioned that they need to have a clean car.

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#328
I live in Florida, where these subscription-only car washes proliferate like kudzu; they’ve crowded out the good old gas station stalwarts that you might or might not get stuck in for several years now.

And the cause for their spread has been widely and publicly known for years: somebody found out that these things print cash. You own the land, you pay for one or two employees on-site max. Once PE woke up to the “strategy,” it was game on.

PE gets excited and overdoes it, wealth extraction hearkens enshittification, corner car washes are the new dollar store.

So I almost didn’t read past the subtitle, what’s actually new here? Oh:

“The omnipresence of the car wash in American life may be underappreciated: There are twice as many car wash outlets as McDonald’s and Starbucks locations combined.”

That’s almost unbelievable. Twice as many as McDonalds+Starbucks!

(Another concern: Who’s on the hook for all the PFAS cleanups when the scheme goes bust? Because you know it won’t be PE.)

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#329
post #207

How does an article like this not mention that if you rent you probably don't have a water spigot and area you can wash your own car. I'm not saying this is causal, but it seems like a reasonable question that I'd want addressed. Is it related? Bloomberg has not previously been shy about discussing the decreasing rate of home ownership and renting.

Actually, why don't apartments offer a spigot and outlet somewhere nearby where you can park a car? In my mind, it's kind of like how above $20/hr or so (and >= 5ish employees), it's a no-brainer for businesses to pay for lunch. It's more cost effective for the business to pay, and it results in less dead time and more camaraderie. The experience of automatic or manual car washes is bad; your car doesn't get that cle…

Because people would come from outside and drink/bathe from it. Apartment car garages in California always have wanderers within or nearby

Re: Why are there suddenly so many car washes?

#330

I really hate sounding like a broken record but this is just another instance of how low property taxes and the absence of land value taxes massively benefits low-value businesses. The real business of car washes is real estate, it's profitable enough to get 3-4x leverage with a low interest loan. TBH I think real estate used to have high information asymmetry between local residents and large investors; low property…

This doesn't make sense. There are tons of other business which will have higher day to day return and property appreciation. I don't think anyone was craving for car wash subscription and I don't know of anyone having car wash in their checklist monthly item. Those people exist for sure but not in that kind of demand that a town needs even two of them. I think this is just another instance where private equity is cr…

It's hard to think of many businesses that require lower capital investment and maintenance than a car wash. The ones I see in my city that look like land banking are a big plot with asphalt covering it (don't even need to mow lawns), a few awnings with some plumbing for hoses and soap and other gear, and nothing else. Even a laundromat would cost more to set up.
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