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How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

danluu.com

531–540 of 613 posts

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you do that on mobile?

Its already perfectly readable on mobile either vertically or horizontally (a rare affordance these days)

Might be for you, but the tiny text and cramped line height makes it painful for me

Pretty sure the text size is likely to be marginal from an accessibility PoV, and the line length doesn’t aid readability

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#532

Dan's point about being aware of the different levels of inequality in the world is something I strongly agree with, but that should also include the middle-income countries, especially in Latin America and Southeast Asia. For example, a user with a data plan with a monthly limit in the single-digit GBs, and a RAM/CPU profile resembling a decade-old US flagship. That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the exp…

> For example, a user with a data plan with a monthly limit in the single-digit GBs I live in a poor Southeast Asian country. People with small data plans don't use data from efficient websites, they use wifi which is omnipresent. 30GB of data on a monthly plan is $3.64. Which is about 4-6 hours of minimum wage (minimum wage is lower in agricultural areas). But more to the point, people don't use data profligately li…

eh, idk. This is your anecdotal experience, there are others (like me) who have different ones

>It honestly sounds like a made up concern from people who've never actually lived in a developing country.

I once loaded a site that loaded approx 324mb "Super resolution" image (I knew it was high res, but I thought it was like 30-40 mb at best). Took care of 1/3rd of my monthly data in a single page load.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That page is nearly fine for me but I just hit CRTL + to scale up. That works for me. How do you do CTRL++ on a mobile phone?

Pinch to zoom, which since basically pinch to zoom was invented should reflow elements.

Pinch to zoom magnifies part of the page. That’s less helpful for text because you have to scroll the smaller viewport to read a complete line of text.

On iOS, there’s a text scale button in the URL bar which does the trick.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#534
post #354
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not fair. Sure, if there's an experienced dev who _values_ efficiency on the team, who pushes for the site to be more efficient or builds it more efficiently to begin with, the page would be better off. But it's mostly about incentives. If management doesn't care, they will likely not react well to programmers spending time making the site more efficient instead of spending half the time to just get it running…

It usually requires less time, not more, to create a slim and efficient page.

It's very situational. If you're talking about writing a static site generator or handcoding a web page, that's mostly true, although if you're trying to not just be efficient, but as efficient as possible, things like optimizing assets are a small but additional step.

If you're maintaining a web app over a period of years, it takes at least some effort and time to keep it slim and efficient because small inefficiencies here and there start to accumulate and these tend to be more demanding even in the best case.

There are some antifeatures that Dan Luu identifies, like dynamically unloading content, that probably take a considerable amount of time to implement while degrading both the user experience and efficiency, but I doubt avoiding those is enough to ensure good performance on more complicated projects.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#535
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who never worked with some of the bloated sites often forgot third party in the bloating. Marketing team mandating inclusion of at least one "Tag Manager" (if they are especially bad, there will be multiple ). A "Tag Manager" is a piece of JS that is installed together with an API key in the site... and then it downloads whatever extra JS that was configured for given API key. The actual site developer often h…

Blaming tag managers and marketing departments is quite common and yes while they are problems on some sites many developers overlook the impact of their technology choices e.g. client side rendering, JS based components etc

There's a reason why I speak of "third party", though I guess it might be unclear in english - my bad.

There are three parties involved in the bloating. Management prioritising certain things is one. Developers (including here both programmers and designers and others etc.) not caring enough or otherwise making choices that lead to bloat is second. Marketing team with power to require problematic things added or just going crazy with tag manager is third.

All three are involved in the "bloating crisis".

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amateur… I am using a 2009 15’ MacBook Pro Unibody, with a swapped SuperDrive to SSD, another main SSD and RAM boosted to 8Gb. OpenCore Legacy to update to a relatively recent version of MacOS. The only thing that is so annoying is the webcam that doesn’t work anymore, and a USB port is dead also. So sad this kind of shenanigans are not possible anymore.

Pfah, showoff. My 2005 Thinkpad T42p crawls circles around that thing - slowly. Maxed out to 2GB, Intel 120GB SSD with a PATA->SATA adapter (just fits if you remove some useless bits from the lid) and - what keeps this machine around - a glorious keyboard and 1600x1200 display. It even gets several hours on the battery so what more could you want?

Mmh… I see that we definitely have people of good taste around here.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 53 and I'm at least five years behind getting my specs sorted out - they are currently perched right on the end of my nose now and I have to get the angle right sometimes (astigmatism). That page is nearly fine for me but I just hit CRTL + to scale up. That works for me. That page is pure text with no or at least minimal fiddling. You have your solution for your use case and I have mine. A blind reader will also…

> That page is nearly fine for me but I just hit CRTL + to scale up. That works for me. How do you do CTRL++ on a mobile phone?

I assume you use some sort of gesture. Hit F1 to find out how to do it.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 53 and I'm at least five years behind getting my specs sorted out - they are currently perched right on the end of my nose now and I have to get the angle right sometimes (astigmatism). That page is nearly fine for me but I just hit CRTL + to scale up. That works for me. That page is pure text with no or at least minimal fiddling. You have your solution for your use case and I have mine. A blind reader will also…

> That page is nearly fine for me but I just hit CRTL + to scale up. That works for me. How do you do CTRL++ on a mobile phone?

Pass the page through a screen reader and listen to the ensuing podcast.

Try using some imagination!

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 53 and I'm at least five years behind getting my specs sorted out - they are currently perched right on the end of my nose now and I have to get the angle right sometimes (astigmatism). That page is nearly fine for me but I just hit CRTL + to scale up. That works for me. That page is pure text with no or at least minimal fiddling. You have your solution for your use case and I have mine. A blind reader will also…

> That page is nearly fine for me but I just hit CRTL + to scale up. That works for me. How do you do CTRL++ on a mobile phone?

> How do you do CTRL++ on a mobile phone?

No idea but you seem to have managed it 8)

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been this way forever because it's not particularly difficult science and is extremely easy to test for so there are probably thousands of papers covering this. Here's a good summary by Baymard Institute[1]. Also WCAG recommends line length set to 1 - https://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability 2 - https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/visual-presentat...

> Also WCAG recommends "recommends". Want to deny me the option of longer lines?

Just like lelanthra currently applies custom CSS `body { max-width: 38rem; }` to this page, if the page had that maximum width set by default, you would equally have the ability to apply the CSS `body { max-width: unset; }` to the page. So you would not be denied the option of longer lines.
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