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How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

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Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#521

Post by Nextgrid »

lukan wrote: post #40
throw_m239339 wrote: post #25

Every company stopped caring, especially the companies who were at the forefront of standards and good web design practices, like Google and Apple. Google recently retired their HTML Gmail version, mind you, it still worked on a 2008 256MO RAM Android phone with an old Firefox version and it was simply fast... of course the new JS bloated version doesn't, it just kills the browser. That's an extreme example, yet low…

"Mobile web sucks, an it's done on purpose, to push people to use "native" apps which makes things easier when it comes to data collection and ad display for companies such as Apple and Google." Partly for sure, but Amazon for example? Or Decathlon? (a big sports/outdoor chain in europe) Their sites are just horrible on a mobile (or in Decathlons case also on a Desktop, that is not high end), but they also don't offe…

> but Amazon for example? Or Decathlon? (a big sports/outdoor chain in europe)

Pretty much every company out there employs oxygen wasters who need "engagement" to justify their promotions/salaries. They don't care whether said "engagement" translates to actual profit.

If bloating the page or adding some annoying cookie banner allows them to come up with some random number that goes up (no matter whether the measurement is even correct) they'll happily take that opportunity even if would cause actual profits to go down.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#522

Post by Nextgrid »

maxloh wrote: post #81

YouTube is one of the slowest websites I have ever used. It takes several seconds to load, even with moderate hardware and fast internet connections.

I remember watching YouTube in 720p HD back in 2009 on a mid-range laptop of the era and it felt faster than the current experience on an M1 where the page often stutters and takes seconds to load.

As far as I know, nothing changed on the video detail page to justify such a huge performance degradation. There's still a player, there are still comments, there are ads and suggested videos.

Everyone working on that pile of shit should be ashamed. They would've been better off literally doing nothing and just enjoy the incremental performance gains as the hardware got faster.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#523

Post by ryukoposting »

eric__cartman wrote: post #14
ryukoposting wrote: post #5

I only recently moved from a 6-year old LG flagship phone to a shiny new Galaxy, and the performance difference is staggering. It shouldn't be - that was a very high-end phone at release, it's not that old, and it still works like new. I know it's not just my phone, because the Galaxy S9s I use to test code have the same struggles. I would like to have seen Amazon in the tests. IME Amazon's website is among the absol…

I have noticed with two 7 year old Snapdragon 835 devices that RAM and running a recent Android version makes a huge difference. I daily drive a OnePlus 5 running Android 14 through LineageOS and the user experience for non-gaming tasks is perfectly adequate. This phone has 6GB of ram, so it's still on par with most mid-range phones nowadays. My only gripe is that I had to replace the battery and disassembling phones…

I don't think the RAM is the difference-maker. The old LG phone in question is a V35, which has 6GB and a Snapdragon 845.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#524

Post by Nextgrid »

zac23or wrote: post #36

Nobody, nobody, nobody cares about old hardware, performance, users, etc. if anyone cared, React wouldn't be a success. The last time I tried to use the react website on an old phone, it was slow as hell. LetsEncrypt is stopping serving Android 7 this year. Android 7 will be blocked from 19% of the web: https://letsencrypt.org/2023/07/10/cross-sign-expiration The option is to install Firefox. Users with old hardware…

React is successful because of the tech/VC bubble, not because it's some miracle technology.

The actual websites where React is useful can be measured in single-digit percentages (effectively a full-blown application requiring a desktop-like experience, think a trading terminal). It is overkill for everything else.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#525

Post by dleink »

eric__cartman wrote: post #14
ryukoposting wrote: post #5

I only recently moved from a 6-year old LG flagship phone to a shiny new Galaxy, and the performance difference is staggering. It shouldn't be - that was a very high-end phone at release, it's not that old, and it still works like new. I know it's not just my phone, because the Galaxy S9s I use to test code have the same struggles. I would like to have seen Amazon in the tests. IME Amazon's website is among the absol…

I have noticed with two 7 year old Snapdragon 835 devices that RAM and running a recent Android version makes a huge difference. I daily drive a OnePlus 5 running Android 14 through LineageOS and the user experience for non-gaming tasks is perfectly adequate. This phone has 6GB of ram, so it's still on par with most mid-range phones nowadays. My only gripe is that I had to replace the battery and disassembling phones…

I want to research this route more but the camera is an important component to me. I suspect their is a model of phone from 5-10 years ago that has a an under-the-radar stellar camera and I would find "perfectly adequate". ("perfectly adequate" is my favored state for most tech solutions.)

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#526

Post by samstave »

samstave wrote: post #309
samstave wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you are upset that I posted obv GPT output, then here is a reason why you're failing at your disgruntlement: I am able to post my prompt in whatever crazy alarmist fashion I would like and massage it into producing an output that I agree with, represents my arguments and doesnt inflame or trigger... aside from the 12 monkeys anti GPT reponse, because they couldnt imagine that it not a generic GPT-barf, as opposed…

WHO THE FUCK IS DOWNVOTING THIS?

@Dang - are you beholden to trolls now?

Jeauses.. asking who consumes bandwidth is not "dont criticise the bandwidth providers"?))

SERIOUS

Show me every sing account that downvoted this.

I gave you content, I uploaded an opinon for which you monetize - yet you take censorship on my provided content as well as revenue.

Show me.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#527

Post by _gabe_ »

porcoda wrote: post #313

I like how most people blame bosses or scary big companies. No developers appear willing to admit that there is a large cohort of not that great web programmers who don’t know much (and appear to not WANT to know much) about efficiency. They’re just as to blame for the sad world of web software as the big boss or corporate overlord that forced someone to make bad software.

> there is a large cohort of not that great web programmers who don’t know much

I think you mean “programmers” not just “web programmers”. I’ve worked with plenty of bloated over-engineered Java and C# codebases that take several minutes to start on a very fast developer machine with 32 gigs of RAM. Sometimes, the worst offenders use “lower level” languages! The performance averse problem is endemic in the entire field, not just in the web.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#528

Post by SilasX »

Timber-6539 wrote: post #473
uaserussia wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

But then you get the desktop version of the site. Never mind that Reddit has a mobile-friendly version (whose design Reddit has kept on bungling too).

The desktop version is still much more usable on mobile than the "mobile-friendly" version.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#529

Post by youngtaff »

p_l wrote: post #478
porcoda wrote: post #313

I like how most people blame bosses or scary big companies. No developers appear willing to admit that there is a large cohort of not that great web programmers who don’t know much (and appear to not WANT to know much) about efficiency. They’re just as to blame for the sad world of web software as the big boss or corporate overlord that forced someone to make bad software.

People who never worked with some of the bloated sites often forgot third party in the bloating. Marketing team mandating inclusion of at least one "Tag Manager" (if they are especially bad, there will be multiple ). A "Tag Manager" is a piece of JS that is installed together with an API key in the site... and then it downloads whatever extra JS that was configured for given API key. The actual site developer often h…

Blaming tag managers and marketing departments is quite common and yes while they are problems on some sites many developers overlook the impact of their technology choices e.g. client side rendering, JS based components etc

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#530

Post by youngtaff »

genewitch wrote: post #106
kome wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2014) is my only computer. I still don't feel like changing it so far...

i have an Air from 2011 or 2012 that is out of storage with just the OS installed. I can't update or install any other software because the most recent update installed on it capped out the storage. Low-end windows laptops (the $150-$300 at walmart type) have this same issue. 32GB of storage and windows takes 80% of the space, and you can no longer fit a windows update on it. I still have the air with whatever the ma…

You could try ChromeOS Flex on it?
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