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Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

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Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#41

Post by unimpressive »

blake8086 wrote: post #24
maeon3 wrote: post #7

95% of people are sheep, just look around you. Clothing fashions all change with eachother according to what the others are doing. Church: just tell me What to believe. Bars, drinking toxic liquids and smoking radioactive smoke because it's cool. Resumes which plead for others to make us worthy members of society. It takes a special kind of defiance to say no thank you to What the world expects you to be.

I am always amused at this mentality. Have you ever noticed how Reddit is full of people who all think everyone else are sheep? Everyone is unique if you only count the things that make them different, and people are pretty similar if you look for things that make them alike.

>Have you ever noticed how Reddit is full of people who all think everyone else are sheep?

Relevant XKCD: http://xkcd.com/610/ (Also a great statement on solipsism.)

Actively defying the norm for its own sake is counterproductive. If your choices are based directly on trends by actively pushing against every one of them you notice your still a slave to them.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#42

Post by oldschooltaper »

The "problem" is that the problem that top tier education raises -- the one this topic is focused on -- is not really a problem for graduates of those institutions, namely:

Getting accepted is the biggest hurdle. Once you are in all you really need to do to secure an opportunity is graduate. It's in the institution's best interest to see that you graduate and carry on the good name of the institution after graduation in whatever position you decide to take in whatever sector of the economy.

People will listen to you merely based on the fact you graduated from a top tier institution. They will assume you are intelligent. There is no need to prove it.

Some people will even hire you solely based on those phenomena.

Why would any graduate be against this? There is very little incentive to think outside the box.

The sheep are not the graduates of top tier institutions. The sheep are the people who blindly follow them.

There is little need to be a good leader when you can be a leader "by default" thanks to "presumed competence" and the fear of questioning anyone who has graduated from a top tier institution.

.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#43

Post by pnathan »

Estragon wrote: post #11

What mentality is he pointing to when he derides "The idea that every activity they undertake be “a growth experience.”"? Sounds like a damn fine idea to me.

becomes a rat race when you view life in that light, continually maximizing your life-experience-point measure for all actions taken.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#44

Post by JonnieCache »

maeon3 wrote: post #7

95% of people are sheep, just look around you. Clothing fashions all change with eachother according to what the others are doing. Church: just tell me What to believe. Bars, drinking toxic liquids and smoking radioactive smoke because it's cool. Resumes which plead for others to make us worthy members of society. It takes a special kind of defiance to say no thank you to What the world expects you to be.

You can only be sure you're really rejecting society's desires when everyone thinks you're mentally ill. Good luck with that.

But seriously, if you keep going down this line of thought you will soon end up a lunatic staggering through a hall of mirrors. Just give up and be yourself, whatever that seems to be at any given moment.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#45

Post by snowwrestler »

blake8086 wrote: post #24
maeon3 wrote: post #7

95% of people are sheep, just look around you. Clothing fashions all change with eachother according to what the others are doing. Church: just tell me What to believe. Bars, drinking toxic liquids and smoking radioactive smoke because it's cool. Resumes which plead for others to make us worthy members of society. It takes a special kind of defiance to say no thank you to What the world expects you to be.

I am always amused at this mentality. Have you ever noticed how Reddit is full of people who all think everyone else are sheep? Everyone is unique if you only count the things that make them different, and people are pretty similar if you look for things that make them alike.

I find the whole idea of using "sheep" as a shorthand for adherence to social norms to be immature. To me it smacks of the adolescent impulse to distinguish oneself from one's parents, and by extension, from any perceived authority--social or otherwise. It's not a great long-term strategy, but it satisfies an emotional need.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#46

Post by lhnz »

I am getting quite tired of listening to people argue for or against conformity.

You don't become a shepherd by making yourself into a black sheep.

And there is nothing wrong with conforming.

There is nothing wrong with wearing fashionable status symbols. There is nothing wrong with climbing hierarchies, nothing wrong with pleading for a comfortable life, or listening to what your friends think is cool. There really isn't. These are all suitable ways of enjoying your life.

We all seem to want to be rare. But what does rare get you?

Solitude.

Maybe you truly want this? But think it through: are the grapes so sour? We are social animals.

I covet the courage to be and do whatever I wish to. I don't need to be scared to be seen along side others. This is a whim to will.

It is crazy to want to be more of an individual than others just for the sake of it, and it has nothing to do with living the way I just mentioned.

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#47

Post by fumar »

mtgentry wrote: post #16
Estragon wrote: post #11

What mentality is he pointing to when he derides "The idea that every activity they undertake be “a growth experience.”"? Sounds like a damn fine idea to me.

I think he means that by framing an activity as a "growth experience", it loses a bit of it's soul. Ghandi, Lindbergh, Jobs - they all changed the world because they had a fire in their belly and couldn't sit still. They didn't pursue things because it would grow their character. They did things because they we're compelled to.

You are correct. Certain individuals have proven that with tenacity anything is possible. Still, it appears most people need structure. Structure, to give them a yardstick to measure themselves by. Stanford, or any college, give students goals. They are prepared sheep with plenty for 'growth experience.'

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#48

Post by cjimmy »

gojomo wrote: post #3

This is one of the reasons I think people err by reading too much into accounts from the 'Stanford Prison Experiment'. The students then (as now) weren't a sample of all people, but a particular kind of privileged young male, especially deferential and trusting towards professors, and especially willing to role-play with confidence that some other authority was managing the consequences.

The participants in the Stanford Prison Experiment weren't Stanford students. I'm not sure any of them were. They were selected by Zimbardo from responses to an ad in Palo Alto. They were selected for their normal-ness, mentally and physiologically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#49

Post by rogerclark »

maeon3 wrote: post #7

95% of people are sheep, just look around you. Clothing fashions all change with eachother according to what the others are doing. Church: just tell me What to believe. Bars, drinking toxic liquids and smoking radioactive smoke because it's cool. Resumes which plead for others to make us worthy members of society. It takes a special kind of defiance to say no thank you to What the world expects you to be.

i bet absolutely no one ever wants to hang out with you

Re: Are Stanford Students Just (Really Excellent) Sheep?

#50

Post by Estragon »

mtgentry wrote: post #16
Estragon wrote: post #11

What mentality is he pointing to when he derides "The idea that every activity they undertake be “a growth experience.”"? Sounds like a damn fine idea to me.

I think he means that by framing an activity as a "growth experience", it loses a bit of it's soul. Ghandi, Lindbergh, Jobs - they all changed the world because they had a fire in their belly and couldn't sit still. They didn't pursue things because it would grow their character. They did things because they we're compelled to.

Oh, choosing activities on the basis of how they extend experience. Thanks, I understand now.
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