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Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

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Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#51

Post by pyoung »

tomjen3 wrote: post #29
strlen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention this is standard boilerplate: it's not even listed as a hard requirement (should have, not must have). If someone is deterred from as much as submitting a resume because they don't have one of the "Desired Skills", odds are they shouldn't be anywhere near a startup hedge-fund or any other kind of enterprise that requires taking initiative.

Heck if I wanted to work there I would apply even though it said 'must have' and I didn't. Job ads requirements are basically a way to scare away those who are limited by artificial restrictions.

Yes, having seen both sides of the process. The minimum requirements tend to be a lot more flexible than people think.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#52

Post by yalurker »

glesica wrote: post #23
donzimmer wrote: post #6

This brings up an interesting point. Are there jobs where a degree from a "top-tier university" is more highly-valued? Being an entrepreneur--even a successful one!--doesn't necessarily require a college degree. But are there jobs (perhaps this one?) where college classes are useful enough to warrant this bullet point in the job description? I'm not sure--I wasn't a stats/math major. But I'd be interested in hearing…

I think you're looking at it backward in some sense. A "top-tier" university doesn't teach any skills that couldn't be learned at most other universities (especially at the undergraduate level). However, the characteristics of an average student can be vastly different between a top-tier university and those lower in the rankings. These sorts of requirements aren't put in place because there are particular skills nec…

"weeding out the people who aren't smart, driven and dedicated enough to get into and graduate from a top-tier school."

Wow. Since the rest of your post seems to equate "top-tier school" with the Ivy's (plus maybe MIT/stanford or whatever) this is just amazingly wrong to the point of being offensive.

There are tons of smart, driven and dedicated high school students in America who have no chance of getting into Ivy League schools. If you're lucky enough to be born into the right family so that you can go to the right private jewish prep school in one of a handful of posh suburbs, then being smart, driven and dedicated means you can probably get into one of the Ivy schools.

For every kid going to a public school in the midwest, who has to check the "will need financial assistance" checkbox (if the application fee alone didn't make them skip applying) and doesn't have any legacy or connections, then applying to Harvard is a lottery ticket even with perfect grades, stellar test scores and a long resume of extra-curriculars.

There are plenty of smart, driven and dedicated 18 year olds who won't be heading to Harvard or Yale next fall. Admittance to one of those schools correlates more with growing up privileged than it does about intelligence.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#53

Post by MartinCron »

intenex wrote: post #15
binarycheese wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there is a difference: Employees from Top Tier universities make better slaves .i.e. They have been trained to "Do as you are told" (no creativity allowed), and "Wait for your turn"

Can't agree with that, even though I dropped out of Harvard to be a Thiel Fellow. Top tier uni students in my experience tend to be quite a few deviations of individual above the norm. Creativity/individuality/freedom/etc are all very highly valued and encouraged at the best schools. Harvard was remarkably open and innovative. MIT even more so. (Tangential, in response to the article - Harvard's very accommodating an…

Harvard's very accommodating and even encouraging of people taking time off school to pursue other things. They have an indefinite leave of absence policy, which means that if I ever decide, 2, 5, 10, or 20 years down the line that I'd really like to go back to school and get a degree, they'll let me come back

That's great. I wonder if many (any?) other universities have such a policy? At my school, I would have to formally re-apply after being gone for a year or so. That's the sort of policy I would encourage my children to take into account when they're choosing where to go to school.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#54

Post by MartinCron »

tomjen3 wrote: post #29
strlen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention this is standard boilerplate: it's not even listed as a hard requirement (should have, not must have). If someone is deterred from as much as submitting a resume because they don't have one of the "Desired Skills", odds are they shouldn't be anywhere near a startup hedge-fund or any other kind of enterprise that requires taking initiative.

Heck if I wanted to work there I would apply even though it said 'must have' and I didn't. Job ads requirements are basically a way to scare away those who are limited by artificial restrictions.

Not that I want to make every thread a "sexism in tech" discussion, but I have personally noticed more women feeling intimidated and discouraged by overblown and strangely specific bullshit requirements in job listings. So, if you're wondering why you don't get many female applicants to your job listings, maybe you should stop asking for experience in every language from Ada to ZPL.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#55

Post by gawker »

temphn wrote: post #49
jbellis wrote: post #3

This is stupid. Do people really think Thiel is personally managing every job opening at every company he's associated with? Non-sequitur "gotcha" reporting at its worst. I expected better from Yglesias.

In any case, the job posting has already been fixed: www.linkedin.com/jobs/jobs-Investment-Analyst-w-2901306 Quantitative skills in a field such as computer science, mathematics, statistics, physics, or engineering; no college degree required Thiel actually believes in what he's saying.

Just curious but does it mean that having quantitative skills in those fields implies that you probably have some job experience in those fields?

I cannot imagine high schools providing substantial education to develop skills in those fields.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#56

Post by temphn »

gawker wrote: post #55
temphn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, the job posting has already been fixed: www.linkedin.com/jobs/jobs-Investment-Analyst-w-2901306 Quantitative skills in a field such as computer science, mathematics, statistics, physics, or engineering; no college degree required Thiel actually believes in what he's saying.

Just curious but does it mean that having quantitative skills in those fields implies that you probably have some job experience in those fields? I cannot imagine high schools providing substantial education to develop skills in those fields.

There aren't too many colleges which offer courses on Rails, Django, Coffeescript, or Nodejs. Smart people manage to get by with the internet, without going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#57

Post by jarek »

pyoung wrote: post #51
tomjen3 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck if I wanted to work there I would apply even though it said 'must have' and I didn't. Job ads requirements are basically a way to scare away those who are limited by artificial restrictions.

Yes, having seen both sides of the process. The minimum requirements tend to be a lot more flexible than people think.

Doesn't this get absurdly game theory, though? Some minimum requirements aren't, so applicants ignore 80% of the minimum requirements, so employers increase the minimum requirements to get applicants that are a little more qualified, so applicants start ignoring even more...

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#58

Post by jarek »

temphn wrote: post #47

The job posting itself has already been fixed: http://www.linkedin.com/jobs/jobs-Investment-Analyst-w-29013... Quantitative skills in a field such as computer science, mathematics, statistics, physics, or engineering; no college degree required Tempest in a teapot. Obviously someone junior in Thiel's organization who didn't get the message, fixed at the speed of light. Now let's see Yglesias, Slate, and CNN issue add…

And if not for the tempest, when would this have gotten "fixed," if ever? This isn't about one job, it's about the reality of everyone having an ingrained sense of "education = capability."

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#59

Post by glesica »

yalurker wrote: post #52
glesica wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're looking at it backward in some sense. A "top-tier" university doesn't teach any skills that couldn't be learned at most other universities (especially at the undergraduate level). However, the characteristics of an average student can be vastly different between a top-tier university and those lower in the rankings. These sorts of requirements aren't put in place because there are particular skills nec…

"weeding out the people who aren't smart, driven and dedicated enough to get into and graduate from a top-tier school." Wow. Since the rest of your post seems to equate "top-tier school" with the Ivy's (plus maybe MIT/stanford or whatever) this is just amazingly wrong to the point of being offensive. There are tons of smart, driven and dedicated high school students in America who have no chance of getting into Ivy L…

I didn't say those are the only people who are weeded out, just that, in general, people who don't have those qualities are less likely to get into "top-tier" schools.

Admissions at these schools actually work a little bit like hiring at prestigious firms in this sense, right? Plenty of awesome applicants get rejected or are priced out of even applying (as you pointed out). But since the average applicant is still quite qualified, that doesn't really matter to the institution, nor to our discussion.

As something of a footnote, I really didn't mean to imply that only Ivy League grads are smart, driven and dedicated. I'm definitely not one, and I like to think I'm reasonably bright.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#60

Post by [deleted] »

yalurker wrote: post #52
glesica wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're looking at it backward in some sense. A "top-tier" university doesn't teach any skills that couldn't be learned at most other universities (especially at the undergraduate level). However, the characteristics of an average student can be vastly different between a top-tier university and those lower in the rankings. These sorts of requirements aren't put in place because there are particular skills nec…

"weeding out the people who aren't smart, driven and dedicated enough to get into and graduate from a top-tier school." Wow. Since the rest of your post seems to equate "top-tier school" with the Ivy's (plus maybe MIT/stanford or whatever) this is just amazingly wrong to the point of being offensive. There are tons of smart, driven and dedicated high school students in America who have no chance of getting into Ivy L…

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