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Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

businessinsider.com

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Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#41

Post by dxdm »

barfbagginus wrote: post #34
idiotsecant wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or...get a different job? No need to start the revolution, just vote with your feet.

I prefer to vote with my feet by kicking the company in the shins repeatedly until it improves - it's for its own good and for the good of the stakeholders. That's how I gained control of my current organization. I ousted the unreasoning capitalists and made it a completely remote worker own commune. Soon we'll be open sourcing our product.

How did this go, do you have that written up somewhere? Sounds interesting, but from the way you write here, also mildly toxic. I'd be happy to learn some details and that my impression was just wild prejudice based on reading too few words.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#42

Post by dryanau »

barfbagginus wrote: post #34
idiotsecant wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or...get a different job? No need to start the revolution, just vote with your feet.

I prefer to vote with my feet by kicking the company in the shins repeatedly until it improves - it's for its own good and for the good of the stakeholders. That's how I gained control of my current organization. I ousted the unreasoning capitalists and made it a completely remote worker own commune. Soon we'll be open sourcing our product.

[flagged]

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#43

Post by harvey9 »

karaterobot wrote: post #23
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly would you outlaw this? I am currently an elementary school teacher. I am not allowed to work remotely, and this is as it should be. How do you determine, by law, which jobs can legally require people to work on-site, and which cannot?

Well, it's not a question of whether people are allowed to work on remotely or not. That's not at issue in this situation: Dell's policy is that you can if you want. The issue is on what grounds people should be promoted. This may also be entirely at the discretion of the company, and any silly reasons it wants to use. Or, it may be classified as a form of discrimination, like refusing to promote someone because of e…

Disability is the one most likely to crop up. If you really have difficulty getting to an office but are otherwise capable in your role then a court may see this as discrimination. Dell could just make exceptions for capable disabled staff.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#44

Post by harvey9 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14
brianjking wrote: post #2

This is so absurd. If this is legal, it surely shouldn't be. Remote work works.

How exactly would you outlaw this? I am currently an elementary school teacher. I am not allowed to work remotely, and this is as it should be. How do you determine, by law, which jobs can legally require people to work on-site, and which cannot?

The conversation statrted with people who currently work remotely for Dell - Dell has determined that those staff can work remotely but would not be promoted. Obviously elementrary school teachers are not in that group any more than Dell factory and warehouse staff are.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#45

Post by kanbara »

barfbagginus wrote: post #28
MichaelMug wrote: post #4

It's important to be aware that in some orgs, being fully remote may potentially impact your promotion opportunities, even if not explicitly stated in a policy. In my personal experience, after going fully remote, my manager implied that it could limit my ability to advance, and that ended up being the case. At least in my company, face time with leadership seems to carry weight when it comes to promotions. For me, t…

That's fine. Just work to sabotage the org because they have a discriminatory noninclusivist and inaccessible policy. When that stops then stop the sabotage. Keep in mind that many people - especially marginalized people and neurodiverse people - are dying or living in poverty because companies are like this. Eventually those kinds of companies will die or change, and we have an opportunity to exert pressure to kill…

pretty weird take, am neurodivergent and recognise showing up for my role is important for opportunity.

nobody is living in poverty bc FAANG promote more people who are f2f, that’s silly.

not every role is for everyone

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#46

Post by barfbagginus »

kanbara wrote: post #45
barfbagginus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine. Just work to sabotage the org because they have a discriminatory noninclusivist and inaccessible policy. When that stops then stop the sabotage. Keep in mind that many people - especially marginalized people and neurodiverse people - are dying or living in poverty because companies are like this. Eventually those kinds of companies will die or change, and we have an opportunity to exert pressure to kill…

pretty weird take, am neurodivergent and recognise showing up for my role is important for opportunity. nobody is living in poverty bc FAANG promote more people who are f2f, that’s silly. not every role is for everyone

[dead]

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#47

Post by The_Colonel »

Chyzwar wrote: post #39
The_Colonel wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "extremely clear" is subjective and not measurable, which will become a problem esp. when trying to compare across individual teams.

Why do you need to compare across teams? Management often create an elaborate once a year process with peer feedback to justify the lack of action. Even then, nobody will write truly negative feedback. If you are manager of a team, you see individuals output in the form of PRs, bugs, tickets and team activity. Instead of wasting time on one to one, managers should just review people work. What I often see is a combin…

> Why do you need to compare across teams?

Line managers of individual teams usually can't promote people. They can recommend someone for promotion and vouch for them.

Usually an organization has some quota for promotions. How do you distribute it? One promotion per team? But what if the teams are of different quality (for various reasons). The best dev in one team can be worse than an "average" dev in another team. You don't want to penalize the excellent dev just because they are part of an elite team.

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