How web bloat impacts users with slow devices • Hacker News Board

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#311

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:15 AM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #208

squarefoot wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a web developing illiterate, I wonder how hard would be writing a browser extension that loads a page, does infinite scroll in memory and in background, then while it is still loading the infinite stuff, splits the content in pages and shows them instead, so that the user can go back and forth to page numbers. This wouldn't reduce the network and system load, however navigating the results would be much more frien…

Problem is, "infinite scroll" often is infinite, meaning it will load an ass load of data in the background and take up a ton of memory, and the user may never even end up looking at that data. I really hate the load on scroll (especially Google Drive's implementation which is absolute trash, and half the time I'll scroll too fast and it will just miss a bunch of files and I'll have to refresh the page and try again)…

> Problem is, "infinite scroll" often is infinite, meaning it will load an ass load of data in the background and take up a ton of memory, and the user may never even end up looking at that data.

It's also an infinitely worse user experience and prevents you from holding your place in whatever is being scrolled. Are there advantages? Why is infinite scroll used in any context?

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#312

Post by eviks » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:15 AM UTC

Telemakhos wrote: post #206

bluquark wrote: post #66

Dan's point about being aware of the different levels of inequality in the world is something I strongly agree with, but that should also include the middle-income countries, especially in Latin America and Southeast Asia. For example, a user with a data plan with a monthly limit in the single-digit GBs, and a RAM/CPU profile resembling a decade-old US flagship. That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the exp…

It's not even just the middle-income countries—I have an iPhone 13, so only three years old, on a US wifi connection with high speed broadband, and it can't handle the glitzy bloat of the prospectus for one of my ETFs. I don't understand why a prospectus shouldn't just be a PDF anyway, but it baffles me that someone would put so much bloated design into a prospectus that a recent phone can't handle it.

It shouldn't be a PDF because they don't reflow text, especially important for phones

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#313

Post by porcoda » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:17 AM UTC

I like how most people blame bosses or scary big companies. No developers appear willing to admit that there is a large cohort of not that great web programmers who don’t know much (and appear to not WANT to know much) about efficiency. They’re just as to blame for the sad world of web software as the big boss or corporate overlord that forced someone to make bad software.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#314

Post by eviks » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:19 AM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #293

crabmusket wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to me, as an outsider, that interfaces are designed with a "one size fits all" approach, at least at the prestige end of town. Instead of allowing the user to choose design and interaction that works for them, the designer (or product owner) acts as if they know what's best for all users.

What would the alternative look like? Applications shipping as a bag of arrangeable buttons and widgets that the user assembles into pages?

Or the user picks from a set of assembled by someone else

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#315

Post by knowaveragejoe » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:22 AM UTC

kome wrote: post #93

lotsofpulp wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the total useful lifetime more than MacBooks with non serviceable components? I see people around me easily using Airs for 5+ years.

My MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2014) is my only computer. I still don't feel like changing it so far...

The main thing that convinced me to get on the ARM macs is the heat and battery life(which kind of go together). It's never uncomfortable on the lap.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#316

Post by gruez » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:24 AM UTC

genewitch wrote: post #99

as a data point youtube is unusable on raspberry pi 3. This happened within the last year, because prior to that you could "watch" videos at about 10-15FPS which is enough, for instance, to get repair videos in a shop setting (ask me how i know). When the raspberry pi model B - the first one released - came out, you could play 1080p video from storage, watch youtube, play games . I'm not sure what youtube is doing (o…

>If we're serious about this climate crisis/change business, someone needs to cast a very hard look at google and meta for these sorts of shenanigans

By all accounts client devices' energy consumption is a rounding error in terms of contribution to climate change. Going after them to solve climate change makes as much sense as plastic straw or bag bans.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#317

Post by bradgessler » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:29 AM UTC

It also impacts users with fast devices.

When I load a bloated website on an iPhone 15 Pro Max over a Unifi AP 7 Pro access point connected to a 1.2Gb WAN, it’s still a slow bloated website.

If you build websites, do as much as you possibly can on the server.

As an industry, how can we get more people to understand this?

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#318

Post by eimrine » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:32 AM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #293

crabmusket wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to me, as an outsider, that interfaces are designed with a "one size fits all" approach, at least at the prestige end of town. Instead of allowing the user to choose design and interaction that works for them, the designer (or product owner) acts as if they know what's best for all users.

What would the alternative look like? Applications shipping as a bag of arrangeable buttons and widgets that the user assembles into pages?

The smartphone world is too crooked to have an alternative IMO. Just keep eating everything the vendor gives you on the top of shovel.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#319

Post by ParetoOptimal » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:32 AM UTC

mardifoufs wrote: post #202

zozbot234 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the experience will probably be on the unpleasantly slow side. ... an alternate "lite/basic" mode Why does this need to be the "alternate" choice though? What does current Discourse provide that e.g. PhpBB or the DLang forum do not? (Other than mobile friendly design, which in a sane world shouldn't involve more than a few tweaks to a "responsive" CSS stylesheet).

I like the scroll view in discourse. Makes it super easy to follow a thread. The subthreads and replies are also easier to use. The search is better, the ability to upvote makes it better for some use cases, and in general phpbb is a mess in terms of actually being able to see what's useful and what threads are relevant. I think flipping the question makes more sense, why do you think some forums switched to or start…

I do think trendiness and modern feeling uis are requirements for most forums these days from most perspectives.

I say this as someone that frequently uses and enjoys both rue brutalist design of a text web browser and the emacs mastodon client.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#320

Post by cuu508 » Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:32 AM UTC

avodonosov wrote: post #269

I think bloat could be prevented if it was noticed the moment it is introduced. After application evolves bloated, it's difficult to go back and un-bloat it. Bloat is often introduced accidential/y, without need, and unnoticed just because developers test on modern and powerful devices. If developer's regular test matrix included a device with minimal hardware pewer that was known to run the product smoothly in the p…

> After application evolves bloated, it's difficult to go back and un-bloat it.

It will be hard to get to pristine quality, but there ought to be some amount of low hanging fruit, where minimal changes bring noticeable improvement.